in defense of interbond

[fat but funky]

Hi guys,

Recently I shot a deer at about 100 yrds with a .308 150 grain hornady interbond. Left the muzzle at somewhere around 2700 - expect it still was going around 2500 when it hit the deer.

Was talking to a fellow today at work. He seems to think that I experienced some sort of bullet failure in that the bullet did not blow a orange sized hole in the other side of the deer. It entered on the right behind the shoulder, and exited on the left behind the last rib.

I never dissected out the exit wound - but what hole there was in the skin wasn't much bigger than a dime or a quarter in diameter.

This fellow seems to think that a good bullet ought to leave a big hole. He blames the lack of blood trail from my deer on the lack of a big hole on the other side. Still got the deer, but it took some looking.

My thought is that the bullet may have expanded just fine (it sure destroyed most of the liver). I thought the lack of a blood trail was more likely because of how high up the trunk the exit wound was.

I was also shooting from above - expected exit to be lower than entrance - but got quite the opposite - so I know something reoriented its path somewhere inside the deer.

So - thoughts? Do you think the bullet failed to expand? Ever had something like this happen to you?

Fat

 

[Longwalker]

I have a few thoughts...
Why would you want a huge hole in your deer? Just more meat destroyed. The bullet expanded or you would have a bullet sized hole in the skin of the far side, not dime size.
The deer was killed and recovered, what's not to like?
A liver shot is a poorly placed shot. About 10" too far back. They often do not bleed much externally from a liver shot. But they do bleed. How are your tracking skills?
I have only seen bullets deflected within deer two or three times in about 60 animals. In every case large bones were hit. That should not be mysterious. You shot a fully adequate cartridge with a premium bullet into a deer at reasonable range and at a poor angle and too far back. You recovered the deer. No problem with the bullet, but your shooting, tracking and observation skills are a little shaky I'd say. But it was a learning experience! You can hunt with confidence with your bullet.

 

[blargon]

Why are you loading down your .308? Factory loads are 2800-2850fps.

 

[Boomer]

Why are you loading down your .308? Factory loads are 2800-2850fps.

Subject to the specific rifle and the comfort level of the shooter.

As long as a 150 gr bullet impacts at a velocity in excess of 2000 fps, the bullet will function as designed and you have a dead deer if the placement was correct. The deer would be no deader if the bullet exited the muzzle at 3000 fps. My only thought is that it is not really necessary to use a bonded bullet on deer sized game, but clearly they work and possibly limit the amount of blood shot meat on the carcass.

 

[blargon]

The deer would be no deader if the bullet exited the muzzle at 3000 fps. My only thought is that it is not really necessary to use a bonded bullet on deer sized game, but clearly they work and possibly limit the amount of blood shot meat on the carcass.

I realize that a lower velocity doesn't really mean a lot on game, however at those speeds, maybe an Interlock would have expanded more...

I'm loading 150's at 2700 for my wife's gun, but I went with an SST instead...

 

[sbtennex]

IB's don't need any defending. Good, solid bullet that works as designed. Tend to be pretty accurate as well. Pretty much a premium bullet that does what it's told to do and in heavier weights and larger calibers I wouldn't hesitate to choose. For deer I use the SST's in a 7-08 - they shoot exactly the same as my 140 AB's.

 

[stovepipe699]

If you want a big exit wound then use a 150 BTSP. Or a SST. Bonded bullets result in a small exit wound, and less damage to the meat.

 

[fat but funky]

Thanks for all the input guys.

RE: placement - I would have placed it further forward if had the shot again. That said, you could see the chunk it took out of the left ventricle and the right lung was pretty messed up too - so I don't think it was all that bad. I still don't understand how exit could be higher than entrance though if I was higher than the target.

RE: tracking - neither me nor my buddy could find any blood at all except where the deer finally went down. Even when we back tracked from where we found it to where it was shot - still didn't see any. Not saying that there wasn't any, just saying that there wasn't enough for us to see a trail on wet leaves at 12:30 in the afternoon on a cloudless day. Still, there was enough damage that it didn't make it more than 100 yards - we just did a sort of formal pattern to find it

RE: velocity - 44.0 grn of varget behind the interbond gave best accuracy in my rifle. All the loads hotter than that showed larger groups.

I like the suggestion of the SST - if I did hit shoulder or humerus at close range (say 30 yards) how much risk would there be of it failing to penetrate? I admit, given the velocity, I was biasing my selection towards penetration vs. expansion.

Thanks again guys

Fat

 

[fat but funky]

Sorry, guess I never described the impact of the bullet in the original post.

Entrance was just behind the right shoulder, passed through right lung, grazed the left ventricle, tore up the liver, reticulum, spleen, and exited in the upper half of the forward abdomen.

Funny thing, there seemed to be separation between the internal and external abdominal obliques on the exit side of the deer. Is it possible (although it strikes me as unlikely) that the external oblique could briefly act like a trampoline and 'catch' the bullet for a short period before the bullet exits?

Fat

 

[joe-nwt]

Bullets do not always follow a predicted path in an animal. I plunked a failsafe into a moose out of my 300WM at about 375 yards once. I was on flat ground, so was the moose. The only thing it hit on the way in was a rib low down in the rib cage, the bullet exited straight up through the backbone.

There is no way to predict with 100% certainly what a bullet will do under the force with which it impacts game.

 

[adriel]

I like the suggestion of the SST - if I did hit shoulder or humerus at close range (say 30 yards) how much risk would there be of it failing to penetrate? I admit, given the velocity, I was biasing my selection towards penetration vs. expansion.
Fat

I sling 140 grn SST's out of my .270 at ~3000 fps. They penetrate enough bone to work well on deer, and they wreak carnage on the vitals. Nothing wrong with your bullets though. Good shot placement is good shot placement.

I saw a study a while back on bullet placement vs how far the deer got. Heart/lung shot deer are found within 100 yards over 90% of the time. Good to keep in mind when you're looking for a deer that you lung-shot, because you usually don't have to go as far as you think.

 

[Pathfinder]

if I did hit shoulder or humerus at close range (say 30 yards) how much risk would there be of it failing to penetrate?

I seen this exact scenario this November, 150gr. SST , 270 win. Launched at 2850 fps.

Destroyed Shoulder, wrecked everything behind it and ended up in the other shoulder short of any exit wound. Dead is dead just much harder on meat.

I should of recovered the bullets to check weight. Deer was very small and front quarter was pretty messed up. The meat was all in the backstraps and back hams. Maybe next time if we ever use SST's again.