In response to post made in another thread.

the remington system has an extractor fully within a solid shrouded bolt face. the base of the cases is shrouded by bolt and no extractor to blow back into your face like the sako and ar15 types. the bolt shroud sits in a barrel recess so it is now protected by bolt and by barrel. the barrel is threaded into an action and the action is vented to allow gases to escape. remington calls it 3 rings of safety and while you can still have s**t fly back at up from the firing pin hole, generally speaking they are pretty goddam safe. there is no gun that is stupid proof but i think remington gets it pretty close
 
I like Savage bolt rifles a lot! Exept that the strenght of a barrel steel over the chamber for magnum cartridges is not adequate! With OD limited to 1,062" and the dia of 270 WSM cartridge roughly .550" there is only .255" wall over the chamber. Even regular magnum has only .280" or so wall thickness over the chamber still not enough for the margin of safety IMO. With chamber wall thickness of over .300" for 30-06 and such I see no problem. According to old formula (Roy Dunlap) the wall thickness over the chamber should be 5/8 of cartridge brass dia so in the instance of 270 WSM means 1.240" barrel dia over the chamber! Once the chamber bursts the barrel steel splits like banana and receiver right along with it exactly like in those pictures. Thats why I refuse to rebarrel the Savage in magnum caliber with Savage nut over the chamber and IMHO those should be rebarreled with substantial shoulder just like Ruger or Remington and others.
 
I saw the wreckage after a guy fired 308 through a 270 Remington 710.
It welded the bolt lugs to the barrel, and wrecked the gun, but the shooter wasn't hurt.
The bolt locks into the barrel on the 710. They had to cut the barrel apart to find out what caused the gun to malfunction.
I don't know what might have happened if it was another receiver.
 
gunrunner8 said:
I like Savage bolt rifles a lot! Exept that the strenght of a barrel steel over the chamber for magnum cartridges is not adequate! With OD limited to 1,062" and the dia of 270 WSM cartridge roughly .550" there is only .255" wall over the chamber. Even regular magnum has only .280" or so wall thickness over the chamber still not enough for the margin of safety IMO. With chamber wall thickness of over .300" for 30-06 and such I see no problem. According to old formula (Roy Dunlap) the wall thickness over the chamber should be 5/8 of cartridge brass dia so in the instance of 270 WSM means 1.240" barrel dia over the chamber! Once the chamber bursts the barrel steel splits like banana and receiver right along with it exactly like in those pictures. Thats why I refuse to rebarrel the Savage in magnum caliber with Savage nut over the chamber and IMHO those should be rebarreled with substantial shoulder just like Ruger or Remington and others.
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From the photo's I would say the barrel faired alot better then the action. There is no way the action should fail before the barrel bursts. Savage uses that action for 338 lm.:eek:
 
timmy204 said:
There is no way the action should fail before the barrel bursts. Savage uses that action for 338 lm.:eek:
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X2. You are right, its a puzzle all right, the action in this instance should hold the pressure, I guess the steel in it was to hard and brittle or having some kind of impurities imbeded in it.
 
I know there was a test done in a Swedish magazine called Vapentidningen a few years back where the Howa 1500 came out on top as the safest of the rifles tested. (They blew up a lot of nice rifles in that test...)

I can't find the article right now, but it was one of the factors in me going with the Howa 1500. (As well as the price)

Edit: Found it, it was in testfakta.se.

In the PDF the last column is explosion test with blocked barrel. The rifles in the test are common moose guns in Scandinavia.

http://www.testfakta.se/Mediaarkiv/Dokument/article11457.ece/BINARY/16464.pdf

http://www.testfakta.se/sport_fritid/article14852.ece
 
Machinist said:
The rifle that blew up at our club was a .270 wsm, The fellow was a guest shooter and new to shooting, he fired the first round and did not see a hit on the target and being inexperienced thought he a simply missed so he chambered another and the pictures tell the story , Last i heard besides the facial injuries its not looking good for his eye , but time as they say heals things so lets hope for the best for the shooter.
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If he was that new to shooting he should have had supervision. Anyone with even 1/2 a brain would have realized that the rifle didn't go *BANG!* when the trigger was pulled. Other than the guy not being killed or other bystandards injured, it's hard to imagine any "good" comming out of this incident.

So, what was the root cause of the problem? Factory ammo that was a dud or faulty reloads?
 
Hand Loads

He was shooting handloads.

During a match i was shooting in the shooter beside me called for a hit on his target because it wasn't pulled after his shot, the responce from the butts was no hit on the target, so the shooter was ready to chamber another and continue, Luckily the RSO was paying attention and asked that the chamber be checked and sure enough there was a bullet lodged in the barrel , This was a seasoned shooter so inexperience is not allways the cause of an accident. like the saying goes s**t Happens.

2bad4u2 said:
If he was that new to shooting he should have had supervision. Anyone with even 1/2 a brain would have realized that the rifle didn't go *BANG!* when the trigger was pulled. Other than the guy not being killed or other bystandards injured, it's hard to imagine any "good" comming out of this incident.

So, what was the root cause of the problem? Factory ammo that was a dud or faulty reloads?
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New to shooting and shooting handloads? His own?

There has been lots of good response to this post. Thanks to the OP for bringing it to our attention.

MODERATORS, can you perhaps sticky this. Better yet, can you start a Newbie Categorie that should be the START HERE button for all new shooters and reloaders? This sort of cautionary stuff should come before the first trigger is squeezed.
 
I can tell you that the bolt nose style of the Rem 700 is by far the safest out there. This fellow had what is called a case head rupture. Full chamber pressure flows into the area behind the chamber mouth. In the case of a factory Rem 700, [non 338 Lapua] the bolt nose wraps completely around the case head and the barrel wraps completely around the bolt nose. 3 rings of steel. When a case head separates or ruptures on a factory 700 [non 338 Lapua], the forces will expand the bolt nose against the barrel recess. This very effectively seals the area. No other firearm does this. If chamber pressure is allowed to enter the area behind the case head of any other action, it will flow into a very large area, normally 1.062" in diameter. If you calculate that area against 65000 psi, it would take an enormous amount of steel to withstand the pressure and not blow up.

Savage will handle gas very well, much better than most. It has a front baffle and a rear baffle as well as relief ports. Most actions have little to no gas flow protection on the left raceway. The problem is when the gas leak is very large such as what happened in the pics on page one. If the flow is fast, a rem 700 expands the bolt nose and stops the flow.

For those fans out there, I somewhat liked Savage long before the internet and a hell of a lot longer than when the internet made them popular. My reason was customer relations and value. They took care of their customers and made a decent product and charged a fair price. I have no illusions of great quality or superb accuracy, the product is nothing special to me. Rem did not take care of their customers well enough in my experience and charged too much but they do make a fair 700. I don't consider either to be more than hunting rifles and have no love for either even thou I seem to true and chamber a lot of them.

Dennis should be along shortly and vent his spleen about 3 rings of steel. He will be correct so pay attention, except for how great they are :D
 
So Rob, when the bolt nose seals against the barrel recess, where does the gas go?? I found your post informative, just incomplete.
FWIW this Savage is the most destroyed action I have seen. I saw a P14 that blew the barrel off the action and the bolt still cycles after, and a Model 70 that blew the stock in two and the mag box was twisted, but never like this one. Mark
 
I think perhaps Savage needs to have a look at this groundbreaking blowup. It's very interesting how in the second picture the "convertible top" has blown completely off and is laying flat, very flat, on the table.

Hold your keyboard Ctrl key down and scroll your mouse wheel. This gives good control of the zoom.

Notice how the thin pointy piece on the blown off top got so hot in the explosion it turned blue. Almost as if a zip cutter had cut the action lengthwise. (Oops, did I say that?)

It's also interesting that the explosion blew the bottom of the action apart through the front bolt hole with a jagged line. However, with the barrel now essentially the bullet the pressure should drop drastically. Not in this case it seems. The explosion, the pictures tell us, had enough force to not only blow the top off along two almost straight lines the length of the action, it also spread the remaining parts approximately three inches apart. The fracture is so shiny, interesting.

I know Remington has an army of lawyers and engineers that get on anything that might hurt their reputation. It will be interesting to see what happens if Savage's lawyers get involved with this one.
 
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art.h said:
Absolutely nothing wrong with the rifles, just natural selection trying to take place...
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Agreed.

Why post crap like this? It's going to be hard to get insurance as gun owners soon if people post garbage like this. Admit you made a big mistake (if you live)...buy another gun and STFU don't post it on internet for anti's and insurance companies to use as fuel on the fire against gun owners.

Threads like this should all be deleted for the common good of all gun owners.

if ya can't say something nice don't say nothin' at all! And dont post it on Internet either!!

And I have a strong background in metallurgy/non destructive testing...surely I'm not the only one thinking something is "off" with those photo's.
 
paperslayer said:
the remington system has an extractor fully within a solid shrouded bolt face. the base of the cases is shrouded by bolt and no extractor to blow back into your face like the sako and ar15 types. the bolt shroud sits in a barrel recess so it is now protected by bolt and by barrel. the barrel is threaded into an action and the action is vented to allow gases to escape. remington calls it 3 rings of safety and while you can still have s**t fly back at up from the firing pin hole, generally speaking they are pretty goddam safe. there is no gun that is stupid proof but i think remington gets it pretty close
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You got it right there, a properly tune rem700 with quality barrel ,can be a deadly accurate as any high end rifle.
 
xring_assassin said:
Why post crap like this? Crap? Hmmmmmm......seems like a great reminder to people to pay attention to what they are doing and what is going on around them so that incidents like this will be less likely to happen.

if ya can't say something nice don't say nothin' at all! And dont post it on Internet either!! Great idea.......try heeding your own advice and thread crap somewhere else.....thanx.
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See responses in red above to this useless post.

If you don't like the thread.....don't read it. Pretty simple.
 
358 said:
So Rob, when the bolt nose seals against the barrel recess, where does the gas go?? I found your post informative, just incomplete.
FWIW this Savage is the most destroyed action I have seen. I saw a P14 that blew the barrel off the action and the bolt still cycles after, and a Model 70 that blew the stock in two and the mag box was twisted, but never like this one. Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, if the chamber area is sealed, gas will go down the barrel and out the muzzle.
 
PEI ROB said:
Mark, if the chamber area is sealed, gas will go down the barrel and out the muzzle.
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So in this case, had this been a Rem. both bullets would have exited the muzzle??

I suspect Savage has seen these pics, and will be doing some more destructive testing. The wsm cart. are running extreme pressure to begin with so screw ups are bound to more horrific.

I had some pics of an 870 that a 20 ga. shell was chambered ahead of a 12. The gun was destroyed and youngster had some shrapnel in his forehead, and bloody fingers on his left hand, but nothing serious.

If nothing else, this shows the need for good glasses. Mark
 
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