Incomplete Ignition

O

One Lung Wonder

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
Aaaaaadmontin AB
Hey - do any of you guys run into this?

I'm playing with a Ruger Redhawk .45LC/45ACP gun and started with some low end patty-cake target loads. I'm using six grains HP38 under a 250gr cast wadcutter ... and I swear something fishy is going on. Sometimes the gun goes BOOM like it should... and other times it sounds like a cork popping out of the whiskey jug: POIT!!!! The other day I had one that I swear is just shy of a squib!

One of the experts at the club said he figured that there must be too much empty space in the cartridge for the powder to ignite properly and I figure it has to be something like that. I know my powder dump is pretty good so it can't be that... in any event I went to a max charge of 4227 to bark things up a bit... do any of you old hands have a preferred powder and load for the .45 LC?
 
I have been using 4.7 of W231(HP38) under a 250 (45 LC CA Lead) projectile in my 45 Colt loads with no issues?

I'm shooting a 44 C&B 1860 army reproduction with a 45 Colt conversion cylinder.

What primers are you using?

M
 
Last edited:
It's not the airspace. It's that you're running that powder at too low a load. It's not seeing a proper pressure build and so it's not burning all the powder.

A buddy recently went through this with some IMR SR4756. We both bought some. He used his on some .45ACP and found that at the lower end of the suggested load data he got rather inconsistent results. It was only when he worked up toward the max loads that the powder behaved and burned consistently. In reading around about it after he told me this I found other reports on the net about how this is a powder that isn't good with light loading data...... so much for using it in my lighter .38Spl loading for cowboy action.

I know it's not the same powder. But it shows that even within the load data in the manuals and found from the powder makers that there's some instances of such situations. Mind you montey's load data mentioned above suggest that something else is fishy.

If you're using any sort of wet cleaning are you sure the brass was fully dry? There was a recent thread about this where the poster's brass had not been left to dry for long enough and the water caused the sort of inconsistency you are reporting. Anything else you think you might have done which is suspect?
 
Had similar happen when first developing some light .357 Magnum loads - the problem was solved for me, for those light loads, when switching from small pistol primers to small pistol magnum primers.
 
I tend to go with CCI primers - I stocked up on them years ago. Might start going to magnum primers though... I have a bud that uses them exclusively as a matter of principle. I might bark up on the HP38...but I prefer to burn that in the .45 ACP...

I'm using hp38 and 4227 because that's all I can get my grubbers on right now. If anyone knows who has universal in the Edmonton area...please let me know!
 
Powders needs to reach a minimum pressure to burn reliably. Some powders are more position sensitive. It sounds like your problem is that the pressure is borderline high enough for good ignition, and occasionally it might not be igniting and burning well due to positioning. That's why you get the occasional squib-ish discharge.

Bumping up your powder charge a bit will solve your problem, or switch to a less position sensitive powder like Titegroup. Titegroup is advertised as less sensitive to ignition problems caused by positioning and I would agree with that in my experience. Titegroup is a very useful powder with a wide spectrum of uses for lower power plinking and target shooting and burns cleaner at reduced loads than unique or universal. I just picked up a 4 lb jug of Titegroup (free shipping from WSS :) ) and it could be a lifetime supply given how small the charges are.
 
You might want to look at Unique with around 8 gr under the 250 gr bullet in 45LC. I use it in my Uberti SAA and my Ruger Convertible with very good results. I use 7.1 gr of 231/HP38, they are the same powder under my 250 gr LSWC with similar results. The 231/HP38 twins do not perform well with light loads in large volume cases.

5.3 gr of 231/HP38 works well in my 45acp cases under 230 gr LRN in my convertible.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
You might want to look at Unique with around 8 gr under the 250 gr bullet in 45LC. I use it in my Uberti SAA and my Ruger Convertible with very good results. I use 7.1 gr of 231/HP38, they are the same powder under my 250 gr LSWC with similar results. The 231/HP38 twins do not perform well with light loads in large volume cases.

5.3 gr of 231/HP38 works well in my 45acp cases under 230 gr LRN in my convertible.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

That is a decent load for 45ACP but very light in 45LC, which is what the OP was using.
 
jethunter said:
That is a decent load for 45ACP but very light in 45LC, which is what the OP was using.
Click to expand...

Not sure which 45LC load you are referring to. 7.1 gr of 231/HP38 is maximum per Hodgdon Powder on line manual. 8 - 8.5 gr of Unique under a 250 gr bullet in 45LC is a pretty standard load. What do you consider "pretty Light". I don't enjoy the fire ball loads and I assume the OP isn;t either given his present load.

Take Care

Bob
 
I had the same thing when doing up 44-40 loads with 231

Even at the upper end I was getting bang bang pop boom whimper out of every cylinder, plus plenty of straw yellow unburnt powder coming out of the brass on ejection (revolver)

I blamed my 20+ year olf lot of primers, at first, but even fresh ones did the same.

I switched to Titegroup on the theory that since it's faster burning it might light off easier.

Running fine now.

231 is great stuff, but I suspect that you need higher density loads, or that it is position sensitive in big old cavernous cases.

I used 4.7 grains of it behind a 158LSWC in my 357 to great effect.

I also wasn't interested in trying magnum primers. I buy cheap bulk standard primers, so I will change powder before I'll go with a more expensive primer. Titegroup is cheaper than 231 besides (I just ended up buying 25lbs of bulk 231 during the great powder shortage, so I try it in many things to see how it works).
 
With the primer shortages I am trying Small Rifle Primers in my practice ammo. They are the same size as Small Pistol Primers. In limited testing I am finding about a 50 fps gain in velocity. I have had the need for the odd double strike to set them off so make sure you seat them tight if you go this route.

Take Care

Bob
 
Mark-II said:
(I just ended up buying 25lbs of bulk 231 during the great powder shortage, so I try it in many things to see how it works).
Click to expand...

Where the heck did you find 25# of 231? I haven't seen that stuff for 3 years or more.

Recently bulked up with HP38 and CFE Pistol. If it's not a powder shortage it's a primer shortage:(

Been using 231 in everything 9mm, 45ACP, 38spl, 357Mag, 38S&W, 44Mag, 455 Webley and 45 Colt. It's a rather dirty powder but does the job.

I really need to try something with more bulk for the 357Mag, 44mag and 45LC. 231 charges look pretty lonely in those large capacity cases.

M
 
Last edited:
gnmontey said:
Where the heck did you find 25# of 231? I haven't seen that stuff for 3 years or more.

Recently bulked up with HP38 and CFE Pistol. If it's not a powder shortage it's a primer shortage:(

Been using 231 in everything 9mm, 45ACP, 38spl, 357Mag, 38S&W, 44Mag, 445 Webley and 45 Colt. It's a rather dirty powder but does the job.

I really need to try something with more bulk for the 357Mag, 44mag and 45LC. 231 charges look pretty lonely in those large capacity cases.

M
Click to expand...

A rural gun store here got a pile of bulk in from higginsons last year, of hp38 and 231. I didn't snaffle it all up either - I bought a box every few weeks when I drove by. It was the only game in pistol powder at the time other than the guy in town charging over $40/lb for bulk boxed Titegroup.

I prefer TG but I'm also against being sodomized brutally by gougers
 
Canuck44 said:
Are there any more "Ration Card" police around anymore. Damn black marketers. LOL

Bob
Click to expand...

Not as bad as it sounded.

Bulked up as in 5# of HP38 and 6# of CFE Pistol. Will gladly trade the CFE Pistol for something else if anyone is interested.

BUDGET is listing 8lb containers of HP38 if you are looking for some. I'm tempted. Get it while you can!!!

M
 
Last edited:
gnmontey said:
Not as bad as it sounded.

Bulked up as in 5# of HP38 and 6# of CFE Pistol. Will gladly trade the CFE Pistol for something else if anyone is interested.

BUDGET is listing 8lb containers of HP38 if you are looking for some. I'm tempted. Get it while you can!!!

M
Click to expand...

Budget??? Depending on where they are I may be interested. 231/HP38 is my go to powder for my cast 9MM bullets. How is CFE Pistol? I have not tried the powder yet and won't have to until next year I don't think. Hopefully some of the shortages will have come to an end by then.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
How is CFE Pistol?
Click to expand...

CFE Pistol is a fine ball powder and feeds well. It's relatively slow for 9 mm but works well for high power loads. Anything near Minor loads results in lots of soot but if there is nothing else out there it can work. Currently my 9 mm preference (keeping in mind my light target loads) is VV N320 followed by HP38, then Titegroup, CFE, Clays or whatever is available.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom