Inconsistent loads with lee 1000
- Thread starter marky33
- Start date
There is no point in weighing the finished rounds, with any expectation of finding 'consistency'. There is too much potential weight difference in the brass, and as you found out, in the bullets, compared to the powder weights that you are using. Unless you have weighed your brass and bullet before loading the powder charge, you are simply getting meaningless results.
I have used Lee 1000 extensively to load .32 S&W for target shooting, .45 ACP for target shooting, as well as .38 Special. I do not try weighing finished cartridges. The only result that counts is the accuracy, and /or the velocity. Depends on what you want. Have you tried shooting your reloads? Are they accurate, do they function the pistol all of the time, or have you chronographed them?
Everyone is free to use their time as they wish, but I would never attempt to determine the consistency of my reloads by weighing finished cartridges.
I have used Lee 1000 extensively to load .32 S&W for target shooting, .45 ACP for target shooting, as well as .38 Special. I do not try weighing finished cartridges. The only result that counts is the accuracy, and /or the velocity. Depends on what you want. Have you tried shooting your reloads? Are they accurate, do they function the pistol all of the time, or have you chronographed them?
Everyone is free to use their time as they wish, but I would never attempt to determine the consistency of my reloads by weighing finished cartridges.
Which powder measure is on the press, the Perfect Powder Measure, Pro Auto Disk or Auto Disk?
If it's the PAD or AD are you using an adjustable charge bar or the powder disks? I found the adjustable charge bar on my Loadmaster to be notoriously inaccurate. The disks, although they have less flexibility, are much more accurate.
While I haven't used 700X or Titegroup I have found that flake or other coarse powders do not meter accurately if your loads are very light.
Also, if using the PAD or AD is the pull chain tight? If it's not snug on the downstroke the disk will not move over fully and will throw varying charge weights.
Wipe the powder container with cling free to get rid of static which can affect the amount of powder dropped. Also, keep the powder hopper near full.
I mounted a small light on my press over the bullet seating station and I visually check each powder charge before seating the bullets. It eliminates the odd squib and saves having to disassemble finished rounds.
Also, as Al-Sway has noted, weighing finished rounds is a waste of time. Bullets and cases can easily vary in weight by several grains from round to round so total weight means very little, especially with handgun rounds.
The Pro 1000 isn't a bad press but it does have a learning curve and Lee presses often require a little tinkering.
Lee manuals are next to useless so check online for tips to get the press running well.
These are a few ideas to get you started.
If it's the PAD or AD are you using an adjustable charge bar or the powder disks? I found the adjustable charge bar on my Loadmaster to be notoriously inaccurate. The disks, although they have less flexibility, are much more accurate.
While I haven't used 700X or Titegroup I have found that flake or other coarse powders do not meter accurately if your loads are very light.
Also, if using the PAD or AD is the pull chain tight? If it's not snug on the downstroke the disk will not move over fully and will throw varying charge weights.
Wipe the powder container with cling free to get rid of static which can affect the amount of powder dropped. Also, keep the powder hopper near full.
I mounted a small light on my press over the bullet seating station and I visually check each powder charge before seating the bullets. It eliminates the odd squib and saves having to disassemble finished rounds.
Also, as Al-Sway has noted, weighing finished rounds is a waste of time. Bullets and cases can easily vary in weight by several grains from round to round so total weight means very little, especially with handgun rounds.
The Pro 1000 isn't a bad press but it does have a learning curve and Lee presses often require a little tinkering.
Lee manuals are next to useless so check online for tips to get the press running well.
These are a few ideas to get you started.
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To gain some confidence in the powder measure try running 8 or 10 rounds without seating the bullets. Then dump the charge and measure each one. I'll bet that they are off by less than ± 0.2 grains.
As the guys said you're measuring at the wrong stage to tell anything at all.
If you stick to the minimum load data for the powder you're using then you'll be fine. If you're after even softer loads such as cowboy action loads then check out the cowboy section on this PDF load data manual;
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon Basic Manual.pdf
In any event there's generally a very good reason why some powders have specs for minimum charges. In some cases it's not an issue and you can barely "dust" the casing and the primer will set the powder off just fine. In other cases too little powder won't produce enough of a pressure spike to ensure a full burn so the results become extremely inconsistent with varying amounts of the powder burning with each shot and wildly varying velocity values as a result. H110 and W296 are one example of such a powder. The min to max on this stuff is VERY narrow and one should not try to go with less than the suggested minimum.
As the guys said you're measuring at the wrong stage to tell anything at all.
If you stick to the minimum load data for the powder you're using then you'll be fine. If you're after even softer loads such as cowboy action loads then check out the cowboy section on this PDF load data manual;
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon Basic Manual.pdf
In any event there's generally a very good reason why some powders have specs for minimum charges. In some cases it's not an issue and you can barely "dust" the casing and the primer will set the powder off just fine. In other cases too little powder won't produce enough of a pressure spike to ensure a full burn so the results become extremely inconsistent with varying amounts of the powder burning with each shot and wildly varying velocity values as a result. H110 and W296 are one example of such a powder. The min to max on this stuff is VERY narrow and one should not try to go with less than the suggested minimum.
You would need a 4-die plate (which I think Lee has?) It goes in the station after the powder drop, and it has a little 'probe/stem' that goes inside the case that gauges the powder depth.
There are a couple different versions made by a couple different companies.
You would have to double check the individual manufacturers but;
RCBS Powder Checker - gives you a visual indicator of the powder level.
RCBS Lock-Out - Actually 'locks-up' your press to signal that you have too much or too little powder
Hornady Powder Cop - Similar to the RCBS Powder Checker
There are a couple different versions made by a couple different companies.
You would have to double check the individual manufacturers but;
RCBS Powder Checker - gives you a visual indicator of the powder level.
RCBS Lock-Out - Actually 'locks-up' your press to signal that you have too much or too little powder
Hornady Powder Cop - Similar to the RCBS Powder Checker
Am I reading your post correctly and you are weighing the case and powder together? If so that will give you a lot of variation because cases will not all weigh the same. I drop the powder in the case and then dump the powder on the scale to see what it weighs. When I am starting up I do that 7 or 8 times just to get the powder properly settled in the powder thrower. I never let my thrower get below half full.
I simply check each powder charge by looking in the case with a light before I seat the bullet. I actually mounted a flexible head bore light to my press and aimed it directly into the case at the bullet seating station. When the case comes around from the powder drop station I just look in the case before inserting the bullet for seating. This works well with 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. It is a little more difficult with 38 Spec because the case is longer and I'm only dropping about 2.9 gr. of Bullseye so it doesn't fill much of the case. However, since Bullseye is a fine grained powder it meters much better than flake powder like Red Dot so checking each owner charge isn't really a major necessity.
I don't think the Powder Cop die will work in a Lee 1000 because you don't have enough die stations. However, if you use the light like I do to visibly check each powder charge the need for a powder check die is moot anyway.
I simply check each powder charge by looking in the case with a light before I seat the bullet. I actually mounted a flexible head bore light to my press and aimed it directly into the case at the bullet seating station. When the case comes around from the powder drop station I just look in the case before inserting the bullet for seating. This works well with 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. It is a little more difficult with 38 Spec because the case is longer and I'm only dropping about 2.9 gr. of Bullseye so it doesn't fill much of the case. However, since Bullseye is a fine grained powder it meters much better than flake powder like Red Dot so checking each owner charge isn't really a major necessity.
I don't think the Powder Cop die will work in a Lee 1000 because you don't have enough die stations. However, if you use the light like I do to visibly check each powder charge the need for a powder check die is moot anyway.
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Supposedly (according to Lee) you can convert the Lee 1000 to a 4 station ($50ish worth of parts?).
Don't know if it's worth the trouble or not though, and I've never personally done it so I can't say for sure that you can, but the interweb says you can and it's never wrong, right?
Don't know if it's worth the trouble or not though, and I've never personally done it so I can't say for sure that you can, but the interweb says you can and it's never wrong, right?
Think paragraphs.
"...priming the casing and then weighing it..." Stop doing that. It's a waste of time. You only need to weigh the powder.
Getting a powder thrower to be consistent is a practiced thing. How you operate it has to be the same every time. As in no hard strokes one time then a softer stroke.
"...priming the casing and then weighing it..." Stop doing that. It's a waste of time. You only need to weigh the powder.
Getting a powder thrower to be consistent is a practiced thing. How you operate it has to be the same every time. As in no hard strokes one time then a softer stroke.
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- Nanaimo, BC
I think its covered here Marky, but even if you do get a squib round, just be sure to have a cleaning rod and small mallet in your range box and you'll be fine... Been there done that!
Spray graphite is incredibly messy and on some surfaces it's extremely difficult to remove once it's on. It might work on a die short term but the scraping of the case against the inside of the die will remove it in short order. Better to polish the inside of the die with metal polish & fine steel wool as that improvement is permanent.
Most powders have graphite already in them to make them flow better and reduce static. If static in the hopper persists then Bounce sheet strips work well without gunking up the hopper with spray.
I've used graphite spray successfully for some applications but wouldn't recommend it as suggested in this case.
The press has a break-in period too. When I bought the parts to convert mine to 9mm I was having trouble with the powder measure not always returning to its downward position, and if I didn't catch this I would be hammering squibs out of my barrel (did that numerous times for the first several hundred reloads). Now it's running fine.
I find the auto disk tends to throw a little on the lite side of what the documentation says, but it doesn't really bother me. Also, since clamping the press down to a rolling bench I have that will wiggle and shimmy with every stroke I have gotten a much better experience with primer feeding from the tray, and it probably doesn't hurt the powder flow either.
The only issue that I have, and its with 9mm only, is sometimes the primer doesn't clear the case (despite the decapping rod having a ridiculous amount of protrusion, and I will end up with a finished round with a dud primer - I'll get 1 or 2 of those per hundred if I don't watch for the sign (that being the column of primers either not moving or getting kicked back up by one when the partially primed case moves to the charging station). It's less hassle to put the ram half way up and manually index the cases out and start a fresh cycle than it is to pull bullets.
Over all, once you know how to run the thing, the Lee is perfectly serviceable. It's quirks would be unacceptable at a higher price point, but for under $300 for a progressive that does everything out of the box save feed the bullets, the compromise in it not having turn-key, eyes-closed function really isn't all that horrible.
I find the auto disk tends to throw a little on the lite side of what the documentation says, but it doesn't really bother me. Also, since clamping the press down to a rolling bench I have that will wiggle and shimmy with every stroke I have gotten a much better experience with primer feeding from the tray, and it probably doesn't hurt the powder flow either.
The only issue that I have, and its with 9mm only, is sometimes the primer doesn't clear the case (despite the decapping rod having a ridiculous amount of protrusion, and I will end up with a finished round with a dud primer - I'll get 1 or 2 of those per hundred if I don't watch for the sign (that being the column of primers either not moving or getting kicked back up by one when the partially primed case moves to the charging station). It's less hassle to put the ram half way up and manually index the cases out and start a fresh cycle than it is to pull bullets.
Over all, once you know how to run the thing, the Lee is perfectly serviceable. It's quirks would be unacceptable at a higher price point, but for under $300 for a progressive that does everything out of the box save feed the bullets, the compromise in it not having turn-key, eyes-closed function really isn't all that horrible.
