Incremential Load development .. Ladder test Great Results !!!

Mobeasto

Mobeasto

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I've been out today to try the ladder test from Mr. Audette method. The incremential load development.. With my tikka T3 Laminated Stainless 30-06 and got some promising results.. I shot 20 rounds From 55.2 gr to 61 gr. at 300 yards And finally got a group of 4 bullets that is 1.825'' ( at 300 yards) What could mean about
.608'' at 100 yards.. So I think this on eis a keeper..

The recipe is Win nickel brass ( neck sized )
WLRM primers
59.6 gr H4350
168 gr. tsx .050'' off the land
Crimped with Lee factory Crimping Die

Chrono is between 3123 and 3180 four the 4 round that are betwenn 59.1gr and 60.0gr.

I'll surely try this method for another bullet in a near time .. But results are somewhat impressives.

David
 
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You sure about your chrony speeds?
3100 fps out of a 30-06 with 168 grn bullets???
You'd be lucky to get that from a 300.
I know that my chrony has been off sometimes. I wouldn't put that speed into a ballistic drop chart and count on it.
 
rcan said:
You sure about your chrony speeds?
3100 fps out of a 30-06 with 168 grn bullets???
You'd be lucky to get that from a 300.
I know that my chrony has been off sometimes. I wouldn't put that speed into a ballistic drop chart and count on it.
Click to expand...

I used to use an Oehler 33 chronograph, very accurate.
I pushed my 30-06 to well above anything shown in modern loading books, without me getting abnormal pressure, and I got a bit over 2900, with 165 grain bullets.
Bob Hagel was known for hot-hot loads and in his book he pushed his 30-06 Sako to the high 2900 range. He also used an Oehler and by coincidence his top loads were with the same Norma powders as my top loads. Actually, they were pretty well identical loads, but his rifle spit them out a bit faster than mine.
 
Are those cartridges still able to fit the mag and still be just off the lands?

My tikka, magsized is about .300 off the lands. Have a bugger of a time getting anywhere near book velocities. Nice job on the ladder. I'd love to try.
 
For anyone interested in trying that load, note that it is 4.1 grains over Barnes #4 manual maximum - max load is listed as 55.5gr.
 
I developed a load for my son's Sako 30-06 using the data from the previous Barnes manual and that combo of bullet and powder when Barnes used to put that little note saying you could go higher with the tSX in the box. It peeked at 58.5, I have since scaled it back to 58, velocities on the Chrono are 2900, your load must have very high pressure.
 
I'm the first that is impressed by those speed .. But my friend just shoot is .308 bullets over the chrony before I try my ladder test ... His speed was normal 2700-2800 and bang I started after him after 55.2 gr with 2750 fps and going up every grains up to 3129I can assume that 3180 could be a misread .. There are absolutely no sign of pression: Bolt as smooth as butter, no flatten out primers, no cracked brass, maybe couple mark of ejector but would need a magnifier to be sure... Yes at .050 off the land it fit my mag perfectly and feed also perfectly.. with my chamber gauge I can't go wrong It give me 2.731'' to the ogive And tested more than once (sorry I forgot to take the overall lenght cause I'm using the chamber gauge).

For the speed Is it possbile that the muzzelbreak cause this ??? the speed is really varying like it is suppose to do in a normal recipe..
 
i have not been able to attain those speeds in my 300wsm using that powder + bullet. i had to use 68 gr of rl17 behind that bullet to get to 3200 which is what others have reported getting.
 
1899 said:
For anyone interested in trying that load, note that it is 4.1 grains over Barnes #4 manual maximum - max load is listed as 55.5gr.
Click to expand...

55.5 grains of 4350 with a 168 grain bullet in a 30-06 is a very light load.
 
Mobeasto said:
I'm the first that is impressed by those speed .. But my friend just shoot is .308 bullets over the chrony before I try my ladder test ... His speed was normal 2700-2800 and bang I started after him after 55.2 gr with 2750 fps and going up every grains up to 3129I can assume that 3180 could be a misread .. There are absolutely no sign of pression: Bolt as smooth as butter, no flatten out primers, no cracked brass, maybe couple mark of ejector but would need a magnifier to be sure... Yes at .050 off the land it fit my mag perfectly and feed also perfectly.. with my chamber gauge I can't go wrong It give me 2.731'' to the ogive And tested more than once (sorry I forgot to take the overall lenght cause I'm using the chamber gauge).

For the speed Is it possbile that the muzzelbreak cause this ??? the speed is really varying like it is suppose to do in a normal recipe..
Click to expand...

Regardless of the reason, those velocity figures are about 200 fps faster than they should be. The fact of them showing no excess pressure and your bolt not sticking, pretty well proves it.
And no, the muzzle brake would not be the reason for more velocity. Actually, there should be less velocity with the brake.
Your top load coincides about identical with a load from the book of Bob Hagel, which gave him a hair over 2900 fps.
And that corresponds about identical to my loads that gave me 2900, over the Oehler chronograph.
 
Regardless of the reason, those velocity figures are about 200 fps faster than they should be. The fact of them showing no excess pressure and your bolt not sticking, pretty well proves it.
And no, the muzzle brake would not be the reason for more velocity. Actually, there should be less velocity with the brake.
Your top load coincides about identical with a load from the book of Bob Hagel, which gave him a hair over 2900 fps.
And that corresponds about identical to my loads that gave me 2900, over the Oehler chronograph.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking I was estimating to be over about 200 fps.. But I really don't the reason .. the Chrono is really well aligned, good height, no direct sun, and 9-10 feet from the muzzle.. I'll try those again.. But will surely keep the 59.6 gr there are absolutly no signs of overpressure.. and great grouping..

Thanks
 
Mobeasto said:
That's what I was thinking I was estimating to be over about 200 fps.. But I really don't the reason .. the Chrono is really well aligned, good height, no direct sun, and 9-10 feet from the muzzle.. I'll try those again.. But will surely keep the 59.6 gr there are absolutly no signs of overpressure.. and great grouping..

Thanks
Click to expand...

That load was not excessive in my rifle, either, and gave good accuracy.
Norama 204 powder is about identical to 4350 in pressure signs, but usually gives a bit more velocity.
Thus, in my rifle, 60 grains of N 204 gave an average of 2912, with a low to high spread of 31.
I used 59 grains with a 180 bullet and averaged 2810, with a high to low spread of only 11.
With such consistant performance between rounds on these top loadings, there is no way I would look for lower loadings for better accuracy.
Warning- Do not load the loads I have shown, as used in my rifle, unless you start much lower and work up, to insure they are not an overload in your rifle.
 
Mobeasto said:
I'm the first that is impressed by those speed .. But my friend just shoot is .308 bullets over the chrony before I try my ladder test ... His speed was normal 2700-2800 and bang I started after him after 55.2 gr with 2750 fps and going up every grains up to 3129I can assume that 3180 could be a misread .. There are absolutely no sign of pression: Bolt as smooth as butter, no flatten out primers, no cracked brass, maybe couple mark of ejector but would need a magnifier to be sure... Yes at .050 off the land it fit my mag perfectly and feed also perfectly.. with my chamber gauge I can't go wrong It give me 2.731'' to the ogive And tested more than once (sorry I forgot to take the overall lenght cause I'm using the chamber gauge).

For the speed Is it possbile that the muzzelbreak cause this ??? the speed is really varying like it is suppose to do in a normal recipe..
Click to expand...

Velocity is the best measure of pressure you can get, you are loading a 30-06 to 300 WSM velocites, dangerous. You must never have had a primer go and blow back across your face, continue at your own risk.
 
Yes, you are playing with fire and gonna get burned. That is a very dangerous load. If you want those speeds, then buy a magnum. I have seen first hand what happens when a case separation occurs, and it is not fun.
 
H4831 said:
55.5 grains of 4350 with a 168 grain bullet in a 30-06 is a very light load.
Click to expand...

Not according to Barnes - note H4350, not IMR4350:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/Copper_Manual4/30-06%20Springfield.pdf


Velocity is the best measure of pressure you can get, you are loading a 30-06 to 300 WSM velocites, dangerous. You must never have had a primer go and blow back across your face, continue at your own risk.
Click to expand...

The velocity he listed is above top listed loads for both .300 WSM and .300 Win Mag. Either the chrono is off, or it is a very, very high pressure load.
 
1899 said:
Not according to Barnes - note H4350, not IMR4350:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/Copper_Manual4/30-06%20Springfield.pdf

Very little difference between IMR and H, in 4350. If anything, the IMR is a little faster burning.
I have chronographed, with the Oehler, 58 grains of IMR 4350 in two different 30-06 rifles, with 165 grain bullets, five shots with each rifle.
One rifle averaged 2772 and the other rifle averaged 2696.
A pretty mild load for a 165 grain bullet in a 30-06, wouldn't you say?
And that was 2.5 grains heavier than what I said was a very light load.
I'll stick with what I said.
Click to expand...
 
H4831 said:
Very little difference between IMR and H, in 4350. If anything, the IMR is a little faster burning.
I have chronographed, with the Oehler, 58 grains of IMR 4350 in two different 30-06 rifles, with 165 grain bullets, five shots with each rifle.
One rifle averaged 2772 and the other rifle averaged 2696.
A pretty mild load for a 165 grain bullet in a 30-06, wouldn't you say?
And that was 2.5 grains heavier than what I said was a very light load.
I'll stick with what I said.
Click to expand...


In your rifle with that velocity it is light. Was it with a mono bullet? All I'm saying is, in case someone wanted to try the load listed by the OP, is that the load is well over what Barnes lists as maximum for that bullet/powder. That's all.

I aslo want to point out the velocity posted, which is directly related to pressure. Your 2700 fps is hardly comparable to +3100 fps. Perhaps someone with QuickLoad could run the load and see what it comes up with.
 
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