incressing accuracy how?

na1lb0hm said:
I stand corrected! thanks for sorting me out. That is very good to know, even from the stickies I was under the impression that the shim was between lock and cylinder.
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No worries I thought the same until Hungry sorted me out. I wish I had heard of flipping the gas lock over and tried that on mine before I shimmed might not of needed it. On the other hand shims worked so nothing lost and I don't really feel like taking it all apart to try. Maybe on my next one.

Saders next free upgrade I would recommend is ensuring your Op Rod Guide is centred and on tight again info in that link I posted after that I would ensure your trigger group is spotless then give it the Hungry recommended trigger job. After that if you want to spend some money best bang for your buck upgrade I did was the changing out your Op rod spring guide for a match version.

Oh and rounds down range speaking of I better get back to work loading up a 100 to shoot this weekend.

Enjoy
 
I didn't get to scientific when I did mine I just looked at where the piston was pushing on the end of the Op Rod. Removed the Op Rod Guide gently and evenly all the way around peen the barrel where the Op rod guide sits to ensure a tighter fit push guide back on ensure Op rod is centred on piston replace the roll pin that held the guide in place with a new one and should be good to go. Also almost forgot use red loctight under the guide to ensure it donst move. Read through the sticky a few times I know I have and still do, the pictures there will make it clearer for you also. Before you make any changes I would do a tilt test on your rifle to see if anything is binding. Remove the op Rod spring and spring guide place rifle back in the stock slowly tilt rifle up and down bolt should open and close around 30degrees as it was explained to me. Make sure before you make any permant changes to your rifle that your op rod isn't binding any were or if it is centring your op rod may fix this.
 
(Thread Hijack) Has anybody here actually tried that David Tubbs Final Finish system? I read that article. Its nice to read about documented improvements 1 step at a time. Just curious as to whether or not anybody has first hand experience with the FF system? Perhaps can agree with or argue against the findings in the chuckhawks article.
(Hijack over)
Derek
 
CanuckR said:
(Thread Hijack) Has anybody here actually tried that David Tubbs Final Finish system? I read that article. Its nice to read about documented improvements 1 step at a time. Just curious as to whether or not anybody has first hand experience with the FF system? Perhaps can agree with or argue against the findings in the chuckhawks article.
(Hijack over)
Derek
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I posted the link to chuckhawks.com tuning article and have tried Tubbs Final Finish on 2 Remington 700 rifles: a 243 Win and a 270 WSM.
The 243 Win shoot better than 1/2 MOA even after almost 1500 rounds fired in it while the 270 WSM shoots 3/4 MOA on a good day!

Both rifles' bore have a mirror finish and clean the barrel takes 30 seconds and there is copper fowling.
I did not use Tubbs Final Finish on my 223 since it's a chromed barrel and I'm afraid to "scrapping" off the chrome.

Finally, you should never use it on a match barrel since match barrel are hand lapped.

Alex
 
Well Saders, it looks like you might be getting ahead of yourself. Of course, you will want to do all those things mentioned above plus everything mentioned in the stickies. Why ? Because its fun. However, doing anything more than what I previously mentioned will do little to improve accuracy. If your gun functions perfectly now, you do not need to do much else since you are already getting 5 inch groups with iron sights. Improve your shooting skills and fine tune your ammo and you might even hit the magical 3 inch group. Then, you spend all your time and money adding "stuff" to your gun. And oh how you will smile.

Ammunition, trigger job, trigger control, breathing, and solid rest. Then repeat.
 
I read on SAGE EBR that unitizing the gas system is hit or miss at best and sometimes can actually be detrimental to accuracy. They said something to the tune of: "If accuracy is increased it's more by fluke than anything." Has anyone ever experienced this after unitizing?
 
I found that the two biggest improvements were shimming the gas system and adding a match op-rod guide. They brought it down to a consistent 2-3 MOA in combination with a Hungry tuning (stock iron sights).
 
Darn... I cannot find the thread from a 2009 Clinic I delivered to a LE Agency's Armorers. They were shooting under 1" groups with the box stock and here it comes( You know I hate CHU wood stocks :D ) the CHU :eek: WOOD stocks! Unmodified but shooting company ammo in (I cannot say their range conditions on this forum) slightly controlled situations of 100m.

So all you naysayers, just hang on to yer dicks! :nest:

:cheers:

Barney
 
Ar180shooter said:
I found that the two biggest improvements were shimming the gas system and adding a match op-rod guide. They brought it down to a consistent 2-3 MOA in combination with a Hungry tuning (stock iron sights).
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Interesting. Could you elaborate how these mods could affect accuracy? Also what was it shooting before your mods?
 
People's definition of "Accurate" differ...........Some are happy with 1 MOA accuracy, others strive for 1/2 MOA accuracy........

You have to decide what you want to do with this rifle........do you want a cheap plinker that can hit pie plates at 100 meters, or a tack driver that will put a round through a .38 SPL case at 200 meters......(Yes, I have done that.... ;)....)

If you are looking to hold 2 MOA accuracy,and your headspacing/bolt fit is ok, there are simple DIY inexpensive mods that can be done.......

Such as:

-Shim the gas cylinder
-Check the op rod guide for sloppiness
-Replace Norc op rod spring with USGI spring
-install National Match Op Rod Spring guide

These may not contribute to match accuracy, but they help with shot to shot consistency.....

If you are looking at bolt gun type accuracy, then prepare to open your wallet wide........

You will want to look at:

-Quality heavy match barrel
-match chamber
-bolt fit to chamber/barrel
-Aftermarket stock
-Glass/steel bedded action
-Replacing the Norc parts with USGI/Match parts
-High end scope mount/rings

Be prepared to fork out anywhere from $2500.00 to $5000.00 on a build of this type.

Been there, done that several times with $5000.00 M14/M1A builds..........;)

Hungry built the best rifle of this type I have owned using all TRW parts, Douglas heavy 1 in 10" twist match barrel, and oversized USGI fiberglass stock with the action glass bedded...........it held it's own against many boltguns.......:D

But honestly, if you want precision type accuracy, this is the wrong platform for it..............these rifles require considerable tuning and tweaking to attain peak accuracy........not to mention a fist full of cash.....
However if you want a plinker that will hold decent battlefield accuracy, it is a great rifle......

;)
 
MustangFrank said:
Interesting. Could you elaborate how these mods could affect accuracy? Also what was it shooting before your mods?
Click to expand...

These two mods help with shot to shot consistency.........

Using a NM op rod spring guide keeps the spring in a straight line when it is compressed. Have a look at how the spring "snakes" on the standard spring guide when compressed, and look at how straight the spring compresses when the Match op rod guide is used..........If the spring is kept in constant alignment it will compress and decompress the same with every shot.

With the standard guide, the spring is compressed unevenly from side to side..........so the spring tends to unload differently with each shot.

A loose gas cylinder will affect the gas flow as the barrel gas port and cylinder gas port will be moving, sometimes letting less gas through, or more gas..........The gas cylinder assembly also contacts the front of the stock.......A lose gas system will affect how the rifle "sits" in the stock.......

If you can get your rifle to shoot consistently, then groups will shrink...... ;)
 
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