Inexpensive, low recoil caliber for Newbie Hunter?

.308 Tons of ammo options. Manage recoil thru appropriate rifle selection, shooting technique and cartridge / load selection.
 
Another vote for .308, recoil was not an issue when I started with it and I still love to shoot it. Buy surplus for practice, better quality for hunting (you will have to sight in with good ammo to match what you are planning to go hunting with). If you reload, brass is plentiful, bullet choices are plenty, and accuracy is so much better. Plus, I found .308 super easy to reload well.
As some have mentioned, buy a good used rifle to start, I recently bought an excellent CZ550 off one of the site sponsors and was delighted with the quality and price.
 
Dont even look at 7.62x54r.

Mosins and SVTs are 99% junk, ammo is junk. If you want to "iron sights, pull trigger, boom, shoulder hurts" - sure, go all the way. But it is completely opposite of "I want to hunt and save money".
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
My first hunting rifle was a .270 Winchester CZ 550 LUX. My original intention was to get a 6.5x55 Swedish CZ 550 LUX. I decided on the .270win for the same reason you're thinking. Today I reload and I really do wish I had chosen the 6.5x55. A classy round for a European rifle. However I don't regret it to the point of selling the rifle. Its my first hunting rifle and I used it to bag my first mule deer with it. The .270win is a great cartridge and the rifle shoots very well.

Oh yea, and when I was picking my first hunting rifle, boy did I swap from caliber to caliber and even rifle to rifle. I would think, "Okay! I'm for sure going with this rifle and this caliber." Well a few days later and a few youtube videos later and I've moved on to a different caliber and rifle. I went from a Winchester M70 with iron sights in a .300wm to a Remington 700BDL in a 7mm Rem Mag, to a Ruger M77 Alaska in 30-06, to a Sako 85 Bavarian 30-06 but then realized how expensive they are so I discovered CZ was a rifle with essentially the same looks but for much cheaper. Then when I decided on the CZ I was swapping from caliber to caliber. I thought Id get it in 7x64, then 8x57, then 6.5x55, then decided the .270 was similar to the 7x64 but with much easier to find and cheaper ammo. All I can say is, its normal for someone to go berserk trying to figure this out. Luckily I'm not a scope shooter so that was one less thing I had to worry about.
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I love the CZ's, I have a 452 Lux. Was originally going to go for a 557 in .308 and my order got cancelled. I still see one in my future, but they are on back order with no firm delivery date. I am now going with a backpacking style gun that I can abuse which was going to be my down the road rifle.

Nice to know others have had the same frustrations coming to a decision. :)
 
owlowl said:
Dont even look at 7.62x54r.

Mosins and SVTs are 99% junk, ammo is junk. If you want to "iron sights, pull trigger, boom, shoulder hurts" - sure, go all the way. But it is completely opposite of "I want to hunt and save money".
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I tend to disagree on that one, along with the many Mosin Nagant shooters & owners out there that hunt & compete with 'em. Nothin' wrong with the design, just gotta get a tidy unit with a good bore & chamber then tinker on 'er a tad to get the bugger dialed in.;) The 7.62x54r is every bit as accurate as the 308 in a decent rifle set up for the task intended.

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You've obviously given this some thought Gorby. I think you've got it well reasoned.

Recoil wise, a .308 and .270 are so close it's going to come down more to the fit and weight of the rifle.

In terms of your direction, if you see yourself as more of a hunter I would recommend the .270. Inside 300m there is little practical difference between the two. Beyond 300m the .270 has some real advantage as a hunting round. Assuming bullets of equal BC, the .270 will be easier to hit with, and it will hit harder, offering reliable expansion.

The downside for the .270 is less barrel life and fewer bullets to choose from. Be aware you will probably want a 24" barrel to burn all your powder, so this + a long action will result in a longer rifle. Most .270 barrels are a 1:10" twist, optimized for ~130gr bullets.

The .308 has lots of great projectiles to choose from, and if you want to shoot a lot, the .308 manages heat better. It might be cheaper to shoot also if you find some 'surplus' ammo. Probably a better choice for target shooting, especially with a 20" 'heavy' or varmint contour barrel...

Even though high BC bullets are available for .308, you may not be able to take advantage of them. My .308 has a 1:12" twist, and though it shoots 180gr spitzers pretty well, I haven't had good luck with 168gr eld or vld's. .308's come with a variety of twist rates, 1:10, 1:11, 1:11.5, 1:12 depending on mfg and model.

If you like high BC bullets, go with a faster twist (this actually has more to do with stabilizing bullet length than bullet weight). Every rifle is different, but faster twist rates stabilize longer bullets.

As far as external ballistics and recoil are concerned, a 6.5 CM or 7-08 are superior choices - they are easy to shoot, and you can readily find bullets with a g1 BC of .600 or better.

Provided you; are interested in shooting really far, have a place to shoot beyond 500m regularly, and have a high quality optic... after some practice you will start to realize the gains here. If you are limited to 300m or 500m, go with the .308. If you want to hunt on the plains, .270.

If you really want to shoot a lot, get a .223. After 2000rnds you could by a 6.5 or 7mm rifle with the money you saved on ammunition alone. With a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, you can use 70-80gr bullets to get 'out there' and learn the ways of the wind.

Interestingly, 75gr ELD-m's out of my .223 fly nearly the same flight path (drop and drift) as 150gr nosler partitions out of my .270 Win. Fun, cheap and easy practice!

Hopefully something in there is helpful and I'm not just muddying the waters...
 
gorby said:
I love the CZ's, I have a 452 Lux. Was originally going to go for a 557 in .308 and my order got cancelled. I still see one in my future, but they are on back order with no firm delivery date. I am now going with a backpacking style gun that I can abuse which was going to be my down the road rifle.

Nice to know others have had the same frustrations coming to a decision. :)
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That happened to me too when I ordered my CZ 550. At the time there was a shortage or back order on CZ rifles. So when I placed the order I waited 9 months to get it. Perfect timing though because I placed the order in October and got it in June right around my birthday so it was like a gift from CZ.... that I paid for. I shot about 100rds that summer practicing with it. The following hunting season I bagged my first deer with it.
 
Hand Skills said:
You've obviously given this some thought Gorby. I think you've got it well reasoned.

Recoil wise, a .308 and .270 are so close it's going to come down more to the fit and weight of the rifle.

In terms of your direction, if you see yourself as more of a hunter I would recommend the .270. Inside 300m there is little practical difference between the two. Beyond 300m the .270 has some real advantage as a hunting round. Assuming bullets of equal BC, the .270 will be easier to hit with, and it will hit harder, offering reliable expansion.

The downside for the .270 is less barrel life and fewer bullets to choose from. Be aware you will probably want a 24" barrel to burn all your powder, so this + a long action will result in a longer rifle. Most .270 barrels are a 1:10" twist, optimized for ~130gr bullets.

The .308 has lots of great projectiles to choose from, and if you want to shoot a lot, the .308 manages heat better. It might be cheaper to shoot also if you find some 'surplus' ammo. Probably a better choice for target shooting, especially with a 20" 'heavy' or varmint contour barrel...

Even though high BC bullets are available for .308, you may not be able to take advantage of them. My .308 has a 1:12" twist, and though it shoots 180gr spitzers pretty well, I haven't had good luck with 168gr eld or vld's. .308's come with a variety of twist rates, 1:10, 1:11, 1:11.5, 1:12 depending on mfg and model.

If you like high BC bullets, go with a faster twist (this actually has more to do with stabilizing bullet length than bullet weight). Every rifle is different, but faster twist rates stabilize longer bullets.

As far as external ballistics and recoil are concerned, a 6.5 CM or 7-08 are superior choices - they are easy to shoot, and you can readily find bullets with a g1 BC of .600 or better.

Provided you; are interested in shooting really far, have a place to shoot beyond 500m regularly, and have a high quality optic... after some practice you will start to realize the gains here. If you are limited to 300m or 500m, go with the .308. If you want to hunt on the plains, .270.

If you really want to shoot a lot, get a .223. After 2000rnds you could by a 6.5 or 7mm rifle with the money you saved on ammunition alone. With a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, you can use 70-80gr bullets to get 'out there' and learn the ways of the wind.

Interestingly, 75gr ELD-m's out of my .223 fly nearly the same flight path (drop and drift) as 150gr nosler partitions out of my .270 Win. Fun, cheap and easy practice!

Hopefully something in there is helpful and I'm not just muddying the waters...
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No doesn't muddy the waters at all, this helps and reinforces the jist of what I am getting from others.

My first priority with this rifle is to get practiced up for my first season of hunting this fall. Realistically, with my summers busy I will only get in maybe 6 mornings of shooting before the season - then it will just be walking around with the thing for 2-3 months. In the winter I will snowshoe deep into crown land and do some longer range practice. (how I practiced with my .22 last winter). So... I am thinking .270.. but... surplus ammo and .308... I will sleep on it.

I actually had been thinking of getting a CZ 527 in a smaller caliber, I think they make a .223, at some point when I get tired of shooting my .22.

Not sure how you gun nutz have any money left after all this... :p

Matt
 
Thanks for all the responses, will reread them all a couple times over the next few days. Appreciate you taking the time to chime in on a "what caliber" thread for a newbie. It has been really helpful and taken me in a new direction.

Reading all this (and talking with a buddy tonight) has started to sway my thinking that my first centerfire is going to be more of a gateway drug than anything else and at this point I do not really know what's what and it is hard to tell what I will want a year from now. You guys have convinced me to keep the caliber simple for a newbie to save some money and try a schwack of different brands of ammo. Thinking now also of going with something quality but a bit cheaper than what I was (Sako A7 or Kimber Hunter), like I am now thinking a Vanguard S2 or Howa, and then reassess in a year. As a rookie, you want to buy your forever gun, but that doesn't seem the way it works and likely explains how come there is so much buying and selling on this site as guys try other cartridges and brands. This will leave me more money for a scope now, develop some skills, and go hunting in the fall.

Thanks!
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
I tend to disagree on that one, along with the many Mosin Nagant shooters & owners out there that hunt & compete with 'em. Nothin' wrong with the design, just gotta get a tidy unit with a good bore & chamber then tinker on 'er a tad to get the bugger dialed in.;) The 7.62x54r is every bit as accurate as the 308 in a decent rifle set up for the task intended.
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Take average mosin, do nothing with it, take milsurp ammo (because you are cheap and OP does not reload) and you have 5 MOA, sticky bolt, good for nothing rifle at best. Putting scope on it - A PROJECT. If you are gunsmithing and whatnot, you are 1% of mosin owners who can make it to a decent condition. All the others are totally junk, they are rotting unclean after corrosive ammo and sold 10 times as a "boom sticks".

You take ANY factory modern bolt action and you are close to 1MOA with factory ammo most of the time, bases, rails and rings - not a problem. With mosin even you iron sights are set to be used with spike bayonet attached. Come on, no new hunter should go through this pain.

Now lets hear about "I knew a guy who knew a guy who has original Westinghouse made Mosin with PU scope and was winning F-class with corrosive ammo". Come on.
 
This is an out of the box answer, but it's a very good solution to your problem.

Get an inexpensive .223 bolt action, a case of 1000 rounds of ammunition and a good scope.

Zero the rifle from the bench then get off the bench into hunting positions like prone, kneeling, standing, improvised rests etc. Shoot at different distances. Shoot all summer, shoot all 1000 rounds. Shoot 10-30 rounds per session, but do it often. Every few days if possible.

As long as you correct your mistakes and continue to improve, you will end the summer a far better marksman than most experienced hunters out there.

Then sell the .223 and buy your hunting rifle, and swap the scope that you already know well onto your 6.5 CM hunting rifle. Even better, keep the .223 if you can afford it, so you always have a cheap rifle to practice with.
 
gorby said:
Thanks for all the responses, will reread them all a couple times over the next few days. Appreciate you taking the time to chime in on a "what caliber" thread for a newbie. It has been really helpful and taken me in a new direction.

Reading all this (and talking with a buddy tonight) has started to sway my thinking that my first centerfire is going to be more of a gateway drug than anything else and at this point I do not really know what's what and it is hard to tell what I will want a year from now. You guys have convinced me to keep the caliber simple for a newbie to save some money and try a schwack of different brands of ammo. Thinking now also of going with something quality but a bit cheaper than what I was (Sako A7 or Kimber Hunter), like I am now thinking a Vanguard S2 or Howa, and then reassess in a year. As a rookie, you want to buy your forever gun, but that doesn't seem the way it works and likely explains how come there is so much buying and selling on this site as guys try other cartridges and brands. This will leave me more money for a scope now, develop some skills, and go hunting in the fall.

Thanks!
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Can't go wrong with a Weatherby Vanguard S2 in the caliber of your choice.
 
Gatehouse said:
This is an out of the box answer, but it's a very good solution to your problem.

Get an inexpensive .223 bolt action, a case of 1000 rounds of ammunition and a good scope.

Zero the rifle from the bench then get off the bench into hunting positions like prone, kneeling, standing, improvised rests etc. Shoot at different distances. Shoot all summer, shoot all 1000 rounds. Shoot 10-30 rounds per session, but do it often. Every few days if possible.

As long as you correct your mistakes and continue to improve, you will end the summer a far better marksman than most experienced hunters out there.

Then sell the .223 and buy your hunting rifle, and swap the scope that you already know well onto your 6.5 CM hunting rifle. Even better, keep the .223 if you can afford it, so you always have a cheap rifle to practice with.
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^^^sage advice
 
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