Inexpensive, low recoil caliber for Newbie Hunter?

SHELL SHUCKER said:
Midol time dude. Get a life.
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Sorry fer the fudd distraction OP. Good luck on your rifle choice.:bangHead:
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It is all good. Even though now I am eager to get going on the rifle I will use in the fall, I can see myself refurbishing old pieces of junk in the future. I have a long history of restoring handplanes, boots, old woodworking machines, etc... One can learn a huge amount from making junk work - but I am going to place that idea on hold for now.
 
Hyllar said:
(did not read all the replies)

What sort of range are you planning on shooting at? 300m+, 150-250M? That will affect your decision a great deal, as the advantages gained from the 6.5 or 7mil variants may not be as pronounced if you are hunting at lower ranges.

outside of that I would suggest the 308 as well. My understanding is that the 270 is a wildcat of the 30-06 cartridge, the same way the 243/6.5cr/7mm-08 is a wildcat of the 308, and in my experience the recoil difference seems to be more affected by the casing than the bullet itself (plenty of other factors aside).

243 is nice and common, but probably not up to the task of elk, but realistically, you will likely have bought a few more rifles by the time you get to that hunt if you are thinking about it as plans for the future.
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The 6.5 Creedmoor is a necked down .30TC. Not a necked down .308. The .260 Remington is a necked down .308.
 
Hyllar said:
(did not read all the replies)

What sort of range are you planning on shooting at? 300m+, 150-250M? That will affect your decision a great deal, as the advantages gained from the 6.5 or 7mil variants may not be as pronounced if you are hunting at lower ranges.

outside of that I would suggest the 308 as well. My understanding is that the 270 is a wildcat of the 30-06 cartridge, the same way the 243/6.5cr/7mm-08 is a wildcat of the 308, and in my experience the recoil difference seems to be more affected by the casing than the bullet itself (plenty of other factors aside).

243 is nice and common, but probably not up to the task of elk, but realistically, you will likely have bought a few more rifles by the time you get to that hunt if you are thinking about it as plans for the future.
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That's also right about recoil being determined by case shape. Its been discovered in this modern time that shorter and wider cases produce better burn for gun powder. Which is why the .30TC shoots at the same velocity of a .30-06 but has less recoil than a .308. This is also why the new .375 Ruger being a shorter and wider case than the .375H&H, is also faster yet with less recoil. This is a big explanation to the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor. This is why it can produce velocities greater than a 6.5x55 with less recoil. I myself haven't jumped on the 6.5 Creedmoor bandwagon as my .270win and .375H&H drop everything dead without issue. But to the people who say its the flavor of the year and that its not better than a 6.5 Swede are terribly wrong. Its kind of like the Glock Gen 4 vs Glock Gen 5... Actually its more like Glock Gen 1 vs Gen 2 vs Gen 3 vs Gen 4 vs Gen 5. If you own a Gen 1 or Gen 2, the Gen 3 - 5 is enough different to maybe make you decided to get a new one. However if you had a Glock Gen 3 or Gen 4, there seems to be no reason for you to jump up to the Gen 5. All of them work very well. However if you're new and don't own one yet, you may as well go for the latest Gen. Now replace my Glock analogy with cartridge design evolutions. The Gen 1 being something like a 44-40, 38-55, 25-20, Gen 2 a .303 British, 7.62x54r, 30-40 Krag. Gen 3 being .223, 30-06, .270, 8mm Mauser, .308. Gen 4 being, 7mm Rem Mag, .300WM, & Gen 5 being .300WMS, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 Nosler.
 
Higher velocity than the 06 and less recoil than the 308? Sounds like a crock of poop to me. Equal and opposite reaction and tall that...
 
Gatehouse said:
This is an out of the box answer, but it's a very good solution to your problem.

Get an inexpensive .223 bolt action, a case of 1000 rounds of ammunition and a good scope.

Zero the rifle from the bench then get off the bench into hunting positions like prone, kneeling, standing, improvised rests etc. Shoot at different distances. Shoot all summer, shoot all 1000 rounds. Shoot 10-30 rounds per session, but do it often. Every few days if possible.

As long as you correct your mistakes and continue to improve, you will end the summer a far better marksman than most experienced hunters out there.

Then sell the .223 and buy your hunting rifle, and swap the scope that you already know well onto your 6.5 CM hunting rifle. Even better, keep the .223 if you can afford it, so you always have a cheap rifle to practice with.
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Probably about the best answer yet.

Having said that, I've been handloading for the past 40 years and really don't understand folks who don't do it. The benefits are many - loads tailored to each rifle you have (and there WILL be more than one), ability to load light for comfortable/cheap practice, not susceptible to ammo shortages so long as you have sufficient quantities of components (I have 50K+ of primers and I wouldn't even hazard a guess at projectiles + more than enough propellant on hand - I can literally shoot for the rest of my life on what I now have since I don't compete anymore). Make friends with someone who does to learn the basics and you're off to the races...
 
Slimbo said:
Higher velocity than the 06 and less recoil than the 308? Sounds like a crock of poop to me. Equal and opposite reaction and tall that...
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Actually correct - sort of - if you stay away from heavier bullets or extremely light ones. 130-150 gr seems to be where they come together, but other than that the '06 eats the 30TC's lunch...
 
mudgunner49 said:
Probably about the best answer yet.

Having said that, I've been handloading for the past 40 years and really don't understand folks who don't do it. The benefits are many - loads tailored to each rifle you have (and there WILL be more than one), ability to load light for comfortable/cheap practice, not susceptible to ammo shortages so long as you have sufficient quantities of components (I have 50K+ of primers and I wouldn't even hazard a guess at projectiles + more than enough propellant on hand - I can literally shoot for the rest of my life on what I now have since I don't compete anymore). Make friends with someone who does to learn the basics and you're off to the races...
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How much about would hunting rounds and cheap practice rounds cost to crank out for one of the 6.5mm cartridges? I am starting to think looking for some used reloading gear may be the way to go for this winter.
 
gorby said:
How much about would hunting rounds and cheap practice rounds cost to crank out for one of the 6.5mm cartridges? I am starting to think looking for some used reloading gear may be the way to go for this winter.
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I load mostly .300 Blackout and .308 now in any quantity and about 45 other calibers on an as-needed basis, so I'll give you the breakdown for my standard .308 load:

brass - once-fired from factory (I get around 14-16 loadings before I toss them - I factor in nil as I have loads of factory stuff but if you're buying then around $40/100 and ammortize it out from there. For the sake of the argument we'll call it $0.04 per round if you get 10 loadings;

Hornady 178 gr ELD-X @ $52/100 = $0.52 per round

IMR 4064 (my current stock was bought when rifle powder was still @ around $25/pound, it's closer to $40/pound now so you can extrapolate, but with a load of 44 gr I'm paying about $0.16 per round for powder ($25 divided by 7000 times 44 = 0.1571

I bought my last round of CCI Large Rifle at $25/1000 so primer = $0.025 per round



So $0.52 + $0.16 + $0.025 = $0.70 per round or $14 per box of 20, but that's with a premium bullet and not factoring in the case. If you buy cases at $40/100 and get, for the sake of argument, 10 loadings out of them, you can add $0.04 per round to your price. Do a survey and get some prices (bulk is cheaper and for bullets you can definitely find cheaper than $0.52/ea) and do the math. If you use range pickup brass and are diligent about cleaning, case prep and sorting - it's good enough for practice...


hope that helps

blake
 
mudgunner49 said:
Actually correct - sort of - if you stay away from heavier bullets or extremely light ones. 130-150 gr seems to be where they come together, but other than that the '06 eats the 30TC's lunch...
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What I was getting at was that you can’t make more velocity and less recoil with a different case shape. All other factors being equal, a bullet weighing x that leaves the bore at velocity y will have the same recoil regardless of case shape...
 
Slimbo said:
What I was getting at was that you can’t make more velocity and less recoil with a different case shape. All other factors being equal, a bullet weighing x that leaves the bore at velocity y will have the same recoil regardless of case shape...
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One thing I have found that has a huge impact on felt recoil is stock shape. For some odd reason, Mossberg 500's kick like mules for me, but the BPS and 870 are entirely bearable. My Dad had a Wby Mk V in 300 Wby, and it walloped me something fierce, yet a Ruger No. 1 and a 77 in 375 H&H and 458 WM were no problem.
 
mudgunner49 said:
I load mostly .300 Blackout and .308 now in any quantity and about 45 other calibers on an as-needed basis, so I'll give you the breakdown for my standard .308 load:

brass - once-fired from factory (I get around 14-16 loadings before I toss them - I factor in nil as I have loads of factory stuff but if you're buying then around $40/100 and ammortize it out from there. For the sake of the argument we'll call it $0.04 per round if you get 10 loadings;

Hornady 178 gr ELD-X @ $52/100 = $0.52 per round

IMR 4064 (my current stock was bought when rifle powder was still @ around $25/pound, it's closer to $40/pound now so you can extrapolate, but with a load of 44 gr I'm paying about $0.16 per round for powder ($25 divided by 7000 times 44 = 0.1571

I bought my last round of CCI Large Rifle at $25/1000 so primer = $0.025 per round



So $0.52 + $0.16 + $0.025 = $0.70 per round or $14 per box of 20, but that's with a premium bullet and not factoring in the case. If you buy cases at $40/100 and get, for the sake of argument, 10 loadings out of them, you can add $0.04 per round to your price. Do a survey and get some prices (bulk is cheaper and for bullets you can definitely find cheaper than $0.52/ea) and do the math. If you use range pickup brass and are diligent about cleaning, case prep and sorting - it's good enough for practice...


hope that helps

blake
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Thanks for taking the time to break that down for me. Reloading absolutely looks like the way to go. Definitely saving my brass for the summer and watching out for a used reloading set up for the winter.
 
gorby said:
Thanks for taking the time to break that down for me. Reloading absolutely looks like the way to go. Definitely saving my brass for the summer and watching out for a used reloading set up for the winter.
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Not only is reloading cheaper, but you will be able to develop better loads than what you buy, unless you go to premium ammo, which will cost you a testicle.
 
Papaclaude said:
Not only is reloading cheaper, but you will be able to develop better loads than what you buy, unless you go to premium ammo, which will cost you a testicle.
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The responses to this thread have resulted in me changing direction and I am going to get setup for reloading right away with a handpress as was recommended.
 
Can't go wrong reloading if you enjoy shooting your rifle. ammo is cheaper but you will likley spend more because you will shoot more.. how can that be bad. Its pretty satisfying to develope a load for your specific rifle and purpose.

Enjoy
 
I like a 308 with 180gr Partitions. Killed my first moose with that; it keeled over after walking 10 yards. A WWII K98 action with a Douglas barrel. Probably sporterized before K98's were valuable :).
 
How much centerfire rifle shooting have you done OP?

If you have zero experience shooting centerfire rifles, even a 270 or 308 can seem like a lot of recoil (more a combination of the blast, concussion and recoil).

I agree with gatehouse, buy a .223 and an optic and a case of ammo. Shoot that rifle like crazy. Sell it once you have some experience and trigger time, keep the optic. Buy the larger caliber rifle of your choice. You could even do the same with 7.62x39 in a bolt action as the ammo is even cheaper.

There are so many caliber/cartridge options and if you’re reloading any will serve you well. I’ve had and/or have 308, 270, 7mm, a 30-06 & 375 Ruger & 6.5x55. For me 6.5x55 is my go to. There’s nothing wrong with any of them. Also have some trigger time with 6.5cm, 260, 7-08. Would love t get a 280 one day but what’s the point?

They all perform similarly out to 300 (except the 375, stay away from that one as a new shooter).

Pick one and go! None of them will let you down. And if you’re a hand loader, you can get more performance out of some cartridges and stellar accuracy out of all of them.

High quality factory ammo is expensive no matter which one you pick.
 
Slimbo said:
What I was getting at was that you can’t make more velocity and less recoil with a different case shape. All other factors being equal, a bullet weighing x that leaves the bore at velocity y will have the same recoil regardless of case shape...
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Not 100% precise, in my opinion. A larger case that requires more powder to make the same velocity will have more recoil. Powder weight is part of ejected mass. So a 7x57 at the same velocity and bullet weight as a 7mm-08 should have lower pressure but higher recoil. Case capacity matters, shape does not.
 
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