info on 45-70

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only1hunter

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i was dusting off some of the less used guns in my cabinet today and came across a hinge break 45-70 that i forgot that i had bought. i figure it would make a good bush gun. I was just wondering what kind of recoil i should expect from this gun and how much meat damage it will do on deer and moose? :nest:
 
Recoil from factory loads is not that bad my 300 win. damages more meat than the 45-70 of wich at the moment I have 3 they are big and slow and tend to push through the animal not expload especially with hard cast bullets .
 
If you homeload, and decide to up the pressure, expect a shoulder thumper! Factory loads are comparable to a .30-30 for recoil.
 
What make and model is it? I have an H&R synthetic stocked 45-70. Shooting factory Hornady Leverevolution 325gr ammo, I would say recoil is about the same as 12ga shooting fast 3-1/2 steel loads (significantly more than a 30-30, but still manageable). This is un-scoped (a scope would add weight which would soften the recoil somewhat) and with the factory recoil pad, which isn't quite a hockey puck, but could be improved on.

Jim
 
Great cartridge, sh**e rifle. Factory loads are rather anaemic but fine for hunting. Handloads approach the lower level of the 458 Win (I said "approach, not "meet" or "exceed" - don't start that discussion again) but they most likely exceed the strength of the action. Hinge break actions aren't the strongest in the world which is why I have no use for them.
 
only1hunter said:
i was dusting off some of the less used guns in my cabinet today and came across a hinge break 45-70 that i forgot that i had bought. i figure it would make a good bush gun. I was just wondering what kind of recoil i should expect from this gun and how much meat damage it will do on deer and moose? :nest:
Click to expand...

As for making a good bush gun, you bet it will.:D As for damage on deer and moose? Well that depends on what bullet you choose to shoot, a 300grain hollow point or a 500gr hardcast are very different and have very different wound channels and penetraion capabilitys. I don't know what model your 'hinge break' firearm is but I wouldn't push the envelope in terms of pressure and stay within modest 28,000cup loads. Even being held back to these low pressure loads you can still take just about anything you would ever want to shoot within 150-200 yards. I would just use 'trapdoor' loading data and be happy with a medium load. Some good 'do all' bullets that will handle deer to moose would be imo, 300gr Nosler Partition, Barnes 300gr TSX FN, Speer 300gr Uni-Cor. I wouldn't hunt big big game with any 300gr hollow points(except deer) but these three are tough for their size and penetrate very well. In 350grains you can't go wrong with any really, Hornady, Speer, Northfork, A-frames, etc. For the velocity your limited too either the Speer 400gr or Remington 405 would work very well.

Cast bullets are another avenue you may pursue and but thats an entire different topic.

Here's some data from Hodgdon 'trapdoor' 45/70 ammo to go over, remember a 400grain bullet at 1200 to 1700fps is nothing to sneeze at.http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Heres some bullet reviews from Midway, gives you a good idea of what works well and for what. game.http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...0&categoryString=9315***652***19785***9016***


Good luck and happy shooting.
 
Seabass

You can expect Jayco to lead you out behind the woodshed for a good whooping, just for mentioning Remington 405s.

(Inside joke. They are a cost effective bullet for low velocity loads.)
 
And then theres black powder.....Single shot-easy to clean. Choices for this cartridge are nearly endless you start poking around. Thats what happened to me when I bought a 38-55. Smaller version of your cal. Big pile of fun to shoot especially in a 110yr old gun. Almost calls for a coonskin hat and buckskins. Almost
 
I have the H & R Buffalo Classic .45/70 break action. I really enjoy this new gun. I have a mold that throws 405gr hollow point bullets in front of a reduced load of 11 grains of IMR 700 X. It reaches a 350 yard target regularly and I hit a 500 yard target once!! Aiming 30 feet above target at snow. 3 inch 4 shot group at 100 with open sights, front dot covers the whole target.
Reduced loads here http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
Have fun with your .45/70.
 
meat damage

I have found very little damage with my 4570 compared to the 270/7mm type of rifle. I shot 2 deer and a bear with 350 grain hornady Fn's over 48 grains imr4198 this year and they all dropped with one shot and had a clean wound channel with the bullet passing through. imo its speed not bullet size that causes meat damage.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Hinge break actions aren't the strongest in the world which is why I have no use for them.
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Do you only own guns that are "the strongest in the world"? Buddy, your .470NE (I'm still wiping the drool off my keyboard after reading that post!) is a hinge break action.
 
jjohnwm said:
Do you only own guns that are "the strongest in the world"? Buddy, your .470NE (I'm still wiping the drool off my keyboard after reading that post!) is a hinge break action.
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I hope you are not suggesting that the strength of a NEF or H&R is comparable to the lock up strength of a quality double rifle! That would be like comparing the strength of a Cooey single shot rimfire to a Remington 700 on the basis that both are bolt actions.
 
Boomer said:
I hope you are not suggesting that the strength of a NEF or H&R is comparable to the lock up strength of a quality double rifle! That would be like comparing the strength of a Cooey single shot rimfire to a Remington 700 on the basis that both are bolt actions.
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No, I just couldn't help but smile when I saw BUM's comment on action strength about 60 seconds after reading about his new Merkel double rifle (mmmmm......double rifle..........):).

But when push comes to shove, break-action double rifles are also much weaker than, say, bolt actions. I wonder if you compared a quality double to an H&R single and a standard Remington 700, where in that range would the double fall? I wouldn't be surprised if it were closer to the cheap single than to the bolt gun...but I'm not trying to stir up any s**t here by pretending to know the answer. I don't...just wondering...but keep in mind lots of H&R singles are very accurate guns. Doubles are not expected to produce extreme accuracy, at least not bolt-action-league accuracy, and nobody gets bent out of shape about it.
 
jjohnwm said:
Do you only own guns that are "the strongest in the world"? Buddy, your .470NE (I'm still wiping the drool off my keyboard after reading that post!) is a hinge break action.
Click to expand...

Not at all. I even have a 45-70 in a Rolling Block (vintage rifle) which is probably even weaker that the H&R.

As for the Merkel being a hinge action, you're absolutely right. But it does have a Greener crossbolt to help with the strength of the action. The H&R has...:D

I think that the 470 runs around 45K PSI which is closer to the H&R than the M700, but pretty well smack in the middle. Maybe it's the ultimate compromise rifle?
 
The H&R's are availble in 30-06 which can produce up to 60k psi. I know of a few guys (members of the Greybeard outdoors forum) who are loading H&R 45-70's to Ruger #1 levels. There are also a few on there who have rechambered them to 45-120 and are pushing some pretty potent loads. I stick to Marlin level loads for mine.

They certainly aren't as refined as BUM's Merkel double, but they are a lot stronger than a lot of people seem to think.

Jim
 
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