Info on Canadian No4Mk1Ts

leelad

leelad

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I've wanted to get a (T) for as long as I can remember, and have long ago desided that what I'd want is a Canadian one.
However I've realized that I don't know much about them as far as:
-Dates of Canadian manufacture.
-Various contracts.
-Wether they were all built on Mk1 or Mk1* rifles (or when they may have -changed between the two)
-Exactly when they went from the Mk1 to the Mk2, and Mk3 scopes
etc.

I know there are several Enfield sniper experts on these forums so I thought I'd plead my case to you.

Thanks.
Lee-lad.
 
leelad said:
.......I know there are several Enfield sniper experts on these forums so I thought I'd plead my case to you. Thanks. Lee-lad.
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Well, a good place to start would be to check CGN's MKB (Milsurp Knowledge Base) under Canadian Service Rifles (click here)http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78025. You'll get a lot of good basic information including access to a full 100 photo pictorial montage of an "all correct" 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle, as well as information from Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield Story".

I'd follow that up with reviewing the many links listed in the Lee-Enfield Rifles Collector Web Sites & Forums (click here)http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77737, also found in the MKB.

Hope this helps...... :)

Regards,
Badger
 
I've wanted to get a (T) for as long as I can remember, and have long ago desided that what I'd want is a Canadian one.
Click to expand...

Hope you've got deep pockets. A LongBranch T will run you in the $4000-6000 range if you can find one. I got one about 2 years ago, by constantly raising the offer on a long time owner of one.
Even normal T with it's goodies is in the $2500-4000 range now .
 
Yah I'm aware of the cost. it may be a lot for "an old .303" but its still cheap compared to say a new ATV or Snowmobile...

Thanks for the link Bager!
 
Long Branch

stencollector said:
Hope you've got deep pockets. A LongBranch T will run you in the $4000-6000 range if you can find one. I got one about 2 years ago, by constantly raising the offer on a long time owner of one.
Even normal T with it's goodies is in the $2500-4000 range now .
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That is a fact. The LB run was so short and their quality so good, that even a beater LB No.4(T) (Oh the shame of it!) would command a premium price.
 
I would be happy with any T rifle , a snowmobile or ATV is going to be outdated in 15 years while a enfield with that much historical signifigance could be a family treasure for decade's. Or untill some ner do well relative sells it for an ATV.
 
leelad said:
I've wanted to get a (T) for as long as I can remember, and have long ago desided that what I'd want is a Canadian one.

This attitude is why I didn't buy the complete Savage I was offered. You should rethink it.

However I've realized that I don't know much about them as far as:
-Dates of Canadian manufacture. 1942-1946
-Various contracts. Canadian & British
-Wether they were all built on Mk1 or Mk1* rifles (or when they may have -changed between the two) Only on MkI* actions
-Exactly when they went from the Mk1 to the Mk2, and Mk3 scopes
etc. As they ran out of tubes! My research seems to indicate that each discrete serial range got a different scope mark, but...

I know there are several Enfield sniper experts on these forums so I thought I'd plead my case to you. An "expert" is a drip under pressure, or someone more than 30 miles from home....:p

Thanks.
Lee-lad.
Click to expand...

Regards
D
 
Thanks Lee-Enfield.

Ok so if all Canadian Ts were built on Mk1* actions, were they all 2 or 4, or 5 groove barrels or did they change as they whent along?

Thanks again!
Lee-lad.
 
leelad said:
Thanks Lee-Enfield.

Ok so if all Canadian Ts were built on Mk1* actions, were they all 2 or 4, or 5 groove barrels or did they change as they whent along?

Thanks again!
Lee-lad.
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If you're serious about Enfield snipers, buy 5 books:

The Lee Enfield Story, The British Sniper~ by Ian Skennerton
Armourers Perspective, The No32 Scope~ by Peter Laidler
Without Warning~ by CLive Law

The Reynold's books may be worthwhile, but rather expensive, everything else I've seen isn't worth the paper...

The specifications called for 5groove barrels to be used EXCLUSIVILY.

All LB snipers were built with 5groove barrels.

Early Savage produced rifles which were converted to snipers in England had 6groove left hand barrels.

Some Savages & Maltby's have been observed with original 2groove barrels (per Paine & Thomkins). It is felt that they "fell through the cracks". A lot of the Savage No4MkI*Ts which have recently showed up in the US have '45 dated Enfield produced replacement 5groove barrels.

Regards
D
 
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Coyote Ugly said:
Just curious, can you tell us more about a 1942 Savage made No.4Mk1(T) with Canadian markings?
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That isn't alot of info.

Canadian soldiers were issued what was in the shared (British) system at the time.

All of the pics which I have seen of Canadian snipers in ETO during WWII where the rifle is semi identifiable show a British converted rifle.

This is possible through study of the left or right sides of the receiver. Left side LBs have a unique contour, right side have bolt-head cutout.

Regards
D
 
Off spec No. 4 Mk1 (T)'s are not uncommon. I had the pleasure to talk to Ian Skennerton about the details of a few that I have seen that looked like genuine T's but just had a few things off of the published specs. This would be solid block front sights, no 'T' stamp on the side, no scope mark impressed behind the cocking piece etc...
His answer for what it is worth based on his experience was, rifles were converted that had one insignificant thing wrong but fell through the cracks. There was a war on. He even suggested that these may be more collectible.
 
Off spec No. 4 Mk1 (T)'s are not uncommon. I had the pleasure to talk to Ian Skennerton about the details of a few that I have seen that looked like genuine T's but just had a few things off of the published specs. This would be solid block front sights, no 'T' stamp on the side, no scope mark impressed behind the cocking piece etc...
His answer for what it is worth based on his experience was, rifles were converted that had one insignificant thing wrong but fell through the cracks. There was a war on. He even suggested that these may be more collectible.
 
Robbs said:
Off spec No. 4 Mk1 (T)'s are not uncommon. I had the pleasure to talk to Ian Skennerton about the details of a few that I have seen that looked like genuine T's but just had a few things off of the published specs. This would be solid block front sights, no 'T' stamp on the side, no scope mark impressed behind the cocking piece etc...
His answer for what it is worth based on his experience was, rifles were converted that had one insignificant thing wrong but fell through the cracks. There was a war on. He even suggested that these may be more collectible.
Click to expand...

Most '44 dated M47Cs which I have observed have the solid fore-sight blocks. This is not only my observation; Re: "4T or not 4T" by Payne & Tompkins in Skennerton's Arms & Militaria Collector magazine. ~.skennerton.com/

An important consideration is that the common indicators (inspection marks,"T.R", "T", "S", ect) evolved during production.

Basically in 1941 Enfield did conversions which did not have some of the "accepted" markings.
When H&H (S51)took over the conversion process, most (all?) of these markings were not in use - they were developed to indicate things during production.
 
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Coyote Ugly said:
How many 1942 Savage made No.4Mk1(T)'s were made?, how many were use by Canada?, What markings?, etc...
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1~ unknown, but probably 250-500+? 1941&42 Savage No4MkI & No4MkI*s were converted by H&H (&Enfield?). OC1 is the best known example.
2~ unknown & no way to tell. If it was in use by the CAO it may have a C^ on the top of the receiver ring. Not many Savages were completed with the scopes. The majority (all?) of the No4MkI*Ts were not set up with scopes.
3~ markings may not conform to the "accepted" patterns- because the guns were set up before they were developed. (I'll check this & update it)

All of the Savages were set up in England (I'm including this because early on I was told that some were done by Savage & LongBranch. This was not the case). There is some dabate over whether some of the 1400ish "trials rifles" which were converted by Enfield in 1941 actually may have included some Savages & early war-time assembled Maltby & BSA No4s...

Regards
D
 
Info on Canadian No4Mk1T

I heard from a buddy about a year ago Wolverine Supplies had a Long Branch rifle, post war, no scope, no box, just the rifle. You might want to give them a shout to see if it's still available.
Mac
 
Mac308 said:
I heard from a buddy about a year ago Wolverine Supplies had a Long Branch rifle, post war, no scope, no box, just the rifle. You might want to give them a shout to see if it's still available.
Mac
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Actually, I just let someone know about this early in the week and he seemed to have worked a deal. John also has a minty LB 4T but I don't believe it is for sale.
 
Lee Enfield said:
1~ unknown, but probably 250-500+? 1941&42 Savage No4MkI & No4MkI*s were converted by H&H (&Enfield?). OC1 is the best known example.
D
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I was having a rather spectacular abundance of testosterone when I tried to negotiate on Savage scope-less No.4(T) 0C303. Lost it.
 
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