Info on French Model 1907/15 Rifle Ammo

albayo

albayo

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Born on PEI, Live in NB
I am looking for info on a French military rifle Model 1907/15 in 8mm.
It is an interesting gun but the three shot clip is an odd duck in the military world.
With the bayonet it measures six feet and the two make a slim package.
I would like to get a couple of stripper clips and some ammo to go with it just for show.
 
So buy some Lebel rounds at a gunshow for $30 for 20 rounds or something crazy like that!

Clips should be available on eBay or maybe try Numrich. I've never looked for 8mm Lebel stuff there.
 
skirsons said:
So buy some Lebel rounds at a gunshow for $30 for 20 rounds or something crazy like that!

Clips should be available on eBay or maybe try Numrich. I've never looked for 8mm Lebel stuff there.
Click to expand...

3 rounders are insanely expensive when found. The common 5 rounder (Numrich, ebay) works fine and are much cheaper.

Surplus 8mm Lebel ammo tends to be the later Balle "N" round. Make sure your rifle has had it's chamber neck modified for this by looking for the letter "N" stamped on the chamber.

I have several variations of Berthier rifles and carbines and they are accurate and fun at the range.

BTW, if you can't get ammo locally, Ellwood Epps sells the brass, bullets, dies, etc.
 
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Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

;)Reload is the best choice

from 348 winch is a great fun!!

someone know how to reduce the rim a bit??

or want to be pay to do ......:dancingbanana::shotgun::wave:
 
3 round clips hard to find and expensive.

Ammo hard to find and expensive. A lot of the older stuff tends to have a lot of scary misfires. As stated before look for the N on top of the receiver to make sure it is OK to shoot more modern ammo.

If you get desparate PM as I have a bunch of this ammo and would sell some at the right price.
 
Thanks gentlemen I will try the sources you mentioned and see what I can get. 55recce I may take you up on your offer on the 8 X 51 rimmed ammo (Am I correct). I am also looking for a few factory rounds to go with the MAS rifle 7.5 X 54.
It has the N on the barrel and the receiver.
On one side of the barrel is marked MV S 1917 (the V in inverted but could be an A without the bar)
On the other side it's marked ST and C inside of a circle and next to it is a P also inside a circle.
The left side of the receiver is marked St, Etienne Mlei1907_15.
Does the gun have a safety?
I noticed there is a knurled knob on the bolt body that turns but it doesn’t appear to lock the bolt or firing pin.
The finish is excellent and the craftsmanship is beautiful. The work that went into the action and bolt is great.
The trigger looks like an afterthought it’s just looks like a square pin that has the front corners rounded off, simple but crude.
I received a MAS 1936 from a gentleman a while ago and it doesn’t appear to have a safety. Did they build all of the French rifles without a safety?
The MAS 36 also has a short butt stock, did they have an option like the Lee-Enfields of different length stocks to fit the user?
Are there any reasonably priced reference books out there on French military rifles?
 
The three round clips are very scarce and expensive (~$20 ea), but available on eBay from time to time. The 5 round clip can be used as it "works".

You can buy Grafs brass (it's known as "8mm Lebel" or "8x50R") for it (I use this guy http://www.macsguns.com/brass.htm) . That saves the effort of modifying 348 Win (both rim and base must be reduced).

Lee sells dies.

Bullets can be a bit of a challenge as the bores tend to slug to about 0.326". I use cast (Lee sells a mold for the 8x56R that drops at about 0.329").

The Lee dies include some loads.
 
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No safety's on any of these rifles.

7.5 French is also hard to find. But keeping looking it does turn up on the EE forum and doas appear in gunshops and at gunshows. Stay away from the Syrian stuff. Lots of misfires.

http://www.milsurpshooter.net/ has a French and Italian rifles forum which is worth looking at
 
55recce said:
No safety's on any of these rifles.

7.5 French is also hard to find. But keeping looking it does turn up on the EE forum and doas appear in gunshops and at gunshows. Stay away from the Syrian stuff. Lots of misfires.

http://www.milsurpshooter.net/ has a French and Italian rifles forum which is worth looking at
Click to expand...

Berthier fires the 8x50R round which preceeded the 7.5x54

My MAS 36, 36/51 and 49/56 love that Syrian stuff.
 
The Mannlicher-Berther 07/15 uses ball "D", which is a sold bronze bullet, about 198 grains, and .323 diameter. This is the round the Germans copied to make the Ss machine gun ammunition of WW 1, and used for general issue in WW 2. The brass ( 8x50RLebel), is available from Buffalo Arms Co. at $105 per 100 rounds. That price information is from their catalogue # 26.
 
sail32 said:
The Mannlicher-Berther 07/15 uses ball "D", which is a sold bronze bullet, about 198 grains, and .323 diameter. This is the round the Germans copied to make the Ss machine gun ammunition of WW 1, and used for general issue in WW 2. The brass ( 8x50RLebel), is available from Buffalo Arms Co. at $105 per 100 rounds. That price information is from their catalogue # 26.
Click to expand...

Most, but not all Berthiers & Lebels were converted for the Balle N in 1932. I have examples of both kinds.

Grafs 8x50 Lebel brass is much cheaper.
 
albayo said:
Thanks gentlemen I will try the sources you mentioned and see what I can get. 55recce I may take you up on your offer on the 8 X 51 rimmed ammo (Am I correct). I am also looking for a few factory rounds to go with the MAS rifle 7.5 X 54.
It has the N on the barrel and the receiver.
On one side of the barrel is marked MV S 1917 (the V in inverted but could be an A without the bar)
On the other side it's marked ST and C inside of a circle and next to it is a P also inside a circle.
The left side of the receiver is marked St, Etienne Mlei1907_15.
Does the gun have a safety?
I noticed there is a knurled knob on the bolt body that turns but it doesn’t appear to lock the bolt or firing pin.
The finish is excellent and the craftsmanship is beautiful. The work that went into the action and bolt is great.
The trigger looks like an afterthought it’s just looks like a square pin that has the front corners rounded off, simple but crude.
I received a MAS 1936 from a gentleman a while ago and it doesn’t appear to have a safety. Did they build all of the French rifles without a safety?
The MAS 36 also has a short butt stock, did they have an option like the Lee-Enfields of different length stocks to fit the user?
Are there any reasonably priced reference books out there on French military rifles?
Click to expand...

MA S = Ste Etienne
MA C = Chatelerault
MA P = Paris
MA T = Tulle
EDB = Delaunay-Belleville

ST: Steel forging facility Saut du Tarn

C,P marking: Principal and secondary inspector markings

Lebel, Berthier and MAS 36, 36/51 have no mechanical safety device other than an empty chamber.
 
I got some Balle N shortly after I got my first Berthier. Rifle was in super shape, ammo gave misfires better than 80% of the time, yet it was 1939 stuff, stored well, and was only 23 years old at that time. I asked a fellow who was in the German Army about it. His comments?
"I spent six weeks riding around in the back of a truck. I fired 2 shots from my rifle, and one of those was at a rabbit. That was the Battle of France.
"That ammunition was like that when it was made. How else do you think we went through them in 3 weeks?"

Turns out the Communist trade unions had the ammo factories out on strike.... Hitler and Stalin had a pact, so any action against Hitler was an action against Comrade Stalin! Talk about getting your priorities mixed up or what?!?!

The Lee dies work fine.

As to the rifles, good materials, wonderful workmanship, but somebody really needed their head read if they thought this rifle was competition for the Gew. 98. In my humble opinion, the entire French General Staff and Chamber of Deputies should have been issued these things and then walked slowly into Maxim Gun fire....... just the same as they sent an entire generation of Frenchmen.

Kick like a mule, though!
 
8mm Berthier

Bought a 8mm Berthier Balle D (no 'N' stamped on breech) last winter. Found Lee reloading dies, Graff brass from BACO, 195 gr. SP Hornady bullets which are closest to BALLE 'D' and reloaded some yesterday. No reloading data anywhere in any of my reloading books, only a bit of info from Cartridges of the World. Had to do a lot of research.
Bore slugs at .315-.326. Chamber cast says neck is .352.
Got a .329 mould from Lee and tried to chamber a round in vain. Loaded case with .323 jacketed bullet , turned out neck O.D. was .345 neck . Neck clearance is .007 which is too much.
Some guys on the net who tried .323 bullets said cases split sometimes which may be because of too much neck clearance.
Phoned Lee to try to get a .327 decapper-expander shaft which goes inside the resizing die but would have to custom make it and there is a long wait.
I will try my .323 jacketed loads soon and see how much expansion I get, may get some split cases.
PRVI Partizan started making 8mm Lebel ammo again but can't find any canadian dealer who would sell them.
Danyboy
 
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