Info on M1917 Browning water cooled MG

Ed Smurf

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I understand that the MG was water cooled, but I have not yet found any info as to how the water was pumped through the jacket. Was this a problem in certain theatres where water was hard to come by. ( forget North Africa I guess). I have seen lots of videos on You tube, but never have seen how the water gets into the gun, but I have seen the water dribbling out on some guns.
maybe someone has a link or explanation. Thanks.
 
Works on the same principle of your cars radiator, as the water condenses it becomes steam which then turns back into water through the rubber hose to the water can sitting below, it was then poured back into the jacket through the top. When water was in short supply, soldiers were known to have to piss into the jacket.
 
I always wondered that myself. So, they would have to raise the water can above the barrel to get the water to run into the jacket, in order to fill it up?
 
Well the video I saw was a vickers gun. You will see water coming out and down the jacket. Nowhere do you see a water can. Is there a pump (hand operated) ? Obviously if no pump, the can has to be above the gun....not too practical I would guess. BTW, WIKI says the M1917 was used even in Vietnam, but not sure which side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaCjYQdmVs
 
Thanks...very nice. So how did they manage to develop the MG42 with a huge increase in RPM using air cooled barrel? ( I do know that they changed barrels a lot and quick too)
 
This video shows how the Vickers MG works with the water can, it is the same principle as all jacketed machine guns of the same era -

 
Thanks...very nice. So how did they manage to develop the MG42 with a huge increase in RPM using air cooled barrel? ( I do know that they changed barrels a lot and quick too)

Jacketed heavy machine guns of the early 20th century were not required to shoot at the high a rate of fire of a MG-42, 500-600 RPM was more than adequate for their needs, the armies of the time needed heavy volumes of continuous accurate long range fire, something the MG-42 was not designed to do. They had a machine gun that fired at about 1500 RPM called the GAST that was fielded just before the war ended (WW1).
 
The barrels on air cooled machineguns have a heavier profile than those of a water cooled machinegun. The heavier barrel acts as a heat sink. Allowing the barrel to "soak up" more heat than a lighter barrel. Don't quote me on this but I believe the standard operating procedure for German gunners on the MG42 was to change barrels after ever 2 -250 round belts.
 
It's exactly like a radiator, but there's no pump. The cooling system is closed and works on steam generated pressure.

It is not a closed system in the true technical definition of that term.. The "device, steam condensing" (what civilian would call the hose) is just stuck into a convenient container and is open to the outside allowing the steam to escape the water jacket. I guess you can say it "works on steam generated pressure" in that the very low pressure pushes the steam out of the hose into the container where it condenses into liquid water.
 
Works on the same principle of your cars radiator, as the water condenses it becomes steam which then turns back into water through the rubber hose to the water can sitting below, it was then poured back into the jacket through the top. When water was in short supply, soldiers were known to have to piss into the jacket.

And when it was not in short supply, WWI stories from the Western Front having them firing off a few belts to heat the water for tea.
 
The water-cooled Brownings I do not know about but I am quite familiar with the water-cooled Maxims, which went into series production 26 years previously and continued in production until after the end of the Second World War.

Ammunition was packed in 250-round belts for the Maxim heavy guns and for the Vickers (simply a product-improved Maxim) and in 100-round belts for guns such as the German 1908/15, 1908/16 (extremely rare; only 1 known to exist) and the 1908/18 air-cooled heavy-barrel gun used by the infantry near the end of the Great War. Aircraft guns, especially, had metallic disintegrating belts. Water-cooled guns (except for Zeppelin guns) were fitted with a gland near the rear end of the jacket. To this gland normally was connected a fitting with a double hose. The free end of the hose COULD be just dumped into a convenient bucket of water (and often was) but the intent was to use it with a sealed container of cold water.

The barrel heated from the firing of the ammunition and heated the water. After 2 belts (500 rounds: 1 minute at rapid fire, perhaps 3 or 4 minutes at slow fire) the water in the jacket had heated to boiling. Following this, every 2 belts additional would boil away a pint of water. The jacket of the Maxim held 10 pints of water, the jacket of the lighter Vickers held only 8 pints. A sliding valve inside the water-jacket controlled the steam somewhat, directing it into the steam hose, which then delivered the steam to the pressure container. The steam hose then pressurised the water container, forcing cold water up the second hose and into the jacket to replace water which had been boiled out.

The system worked very well indeed.

The Vickers sometimes was given fresh water following its daily tear-down for maintenance and then "tested" with 2 belts. According to my Grandfather, this testing often coincided rather closely with tea-time. Fritz knew very well when tea-time was and wisely kept his pickelhaub down while the sandbags along his parapet were being shot to doll-rags.

BTW, either the Maxim OR the Vickers can be torn-down completely for service, including a barrel change if necessary, reassembled and returned to action in under 3 minutes by an experienced crew. Both Maxim and Vickers were of MODULAR CONSTRUCTION (the first instance of this practice on any industrial product; the concept was Maxim's) and parts were not changed-out: entire ASSEMBLIES were. This made keeping either gun in action very quick and easy. Break something in the feed mechanism, you changed the entire FEED BLOCK (took no more than 6 seconds). Anything not working in the recoil mechanism, you change that: no more than 6 seconds. Something not working in the firing mechanism, you changed out the entire Lock and the gun was back in service in 6 seconds. Barrel life on either gun was approximately 10,000 rounds and a burnt-out barrel could be changed-out and replaced in as little as ONE minute.

In the Second War, the German MG-42 used a barrel which was shorter than the 28-1/4 inches of the Maxim, and also heavier. Being that a hot barrel could be changed-out on the '42 in as little as 3 seconds (although 5 was more usual), the gun was issued with 3 spare, fitted, serialled barrels per gun. Barrels would be changed following the firing of one box (250 rounds) of ammunition, regardless of the actual heat of the barrel at time of change. That this practice was a success is attested by the condition of guns captured by our forces: burnt-out barrels were extremely rare.

Hope this helps.
 
If water ran short for the Vickers the crew was advised "To tap the fusee spring for water".
Vickers humour MG school Netheravon UK c1955.
 
Smellie,
I only know what I read and what I read is that the German MG08 had only one hose come out of the water jacket. My reference is The Devil's Paintbrush Sir Hiram Maxim's Gun by Dolf L. Godsmith. In that book there are numerous picture of MG08's in the hands of German troops with only one hose. As for the Vickers at least the U. S. Machine Gun, Vickers, Caliber .30, Model of 1915 only had one hose that was place "in a water box, a pail, can, or a hole in the ground...". I am still trying to find my copy to the manual for the U. S. Machine Gun, Maxim, Caliber .30, Model of 1904 to see what it has to say about hoses.
 
Well, I'm just going by the couple of guns I have torn down completely myself, Maxim's original description of how the gun works and the original patent drawings.

When Dolph Goldsmith started serious work on that book, he started with an English-language manual he got from the IWM. It was written originally for the CFB Shilo Museum. I wrote it, gave a copy to the IWM on the day I identified their very FIRST Maxim for them. They weren't sure what it was.

Maxim's MY LIFE was published by Methuen in London, 2 printings, 1915 and is now a Rare Book. It has recently been REPRINTED in New York and is available from your local bookseller for $25. I just loaned-out my copy to the XII Manitoba Dragoons Museum or I could tell you more. Check out DOLLINGER Publications, NY, NY.

You can dowload pdfs of that 1904 manual from a couple of sites.

Sorry I can't help.
 
The .303 Vickers that was used for continuous overhead fire to keep our heads down during "infantry advancing under fire" training when I was in the army was setup just like the one in the Youtube I posted! They showed our Platoon what would be used for overhead fire beforehand to make sure we kept our heads down below the wire!
 
Smellie....you say that the MG42 barrels could be changed out in 5 sec. Does this mean the barrel is no longer useable, or was it just to let it cool down, and then used again after the cool down time?
 
Smellie....you say that the MG42 barrels could be changed out in 5 sec. Does this mean the barrel is no longer useable, or was it just to let it cool down, and then used again after the cool down time?

MG-34 came with 4 barrels, serial number matched to the gun. Swap out, let cool after 250 rounds, then swap back in again.
I expect the MG-42 also came with 4 barrels as well.
 
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