Info on two percussion caps help please

zelly

zelly

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So I bought the percussion caps off another cgner. Got a good deal but wondering how good? Not gonna sell ever tho. They just are too cool. Also interested in more info about them. Value, were they kits and what not. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

First one is a Lyman trade rifle? Was it a kit or complete gun? Value?(new/used)
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Second I think is a Lyman rifle ? Has double triggers. Just not sure what edition. Also was it a kit or complete ? Value (new/used). A little pissed about this gun tho. I put it in my safe and knocked a handgun off the top shelf and it fell on the stock and gowged it! So angry
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I went to epps and they had everything except patches so I didn't buy supplies. Can someone point me to a good cheap place to buy powders,balls,and patches. Also any tips on how to use or what to use would be AWSOME! I have never shot guns like these before.
 
Patches

For patches could you not just use any piece of cotton and cut to size yourself. I use an old T-Shirt then slather Crisco lard on the patch. Seems to work just fine for me.
 
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I guess I could but I am a newbie at this and didn't know if that's acceptable. I don't even know what size to cut them? I guess if some one could tell me a place on the web where it's a good place to get knowledgable on all things black powder. I searched here and didn't really find answers.
 
Go to the Track of the Wolf website, you can by everything for your guns there including precut prelubed patches.Also since you are new to muzzleloading I suggest you pick up some how to books on muzzleloading(also available at Track)
 
If you don't mind that it's not on the "Web" - the best place to get all the info you need is Sam Fadala's book "The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual". You can order it on-line from Wholesale Sports.

There's the muzzleloadingforum.com site. There's also a lot of good info on this site if you look through past posts.

Then there's the muzzleloading section of oodmag.com.

I forgot to add that YouTube has a lot of informative videos.

As to the size of patches - a lot of guys place a piece of material over the muzzle (lubed), place the ball on the patch, short start it and then cut off the remaining material with a sharp patch knife ( an old straight razor works well but any sharp knife will do).

If you want to pre-cut some patches then just use the size of your rifle's muzzle as a guide. I just measured a commercial patch I had on hand and it is just over 1" in diameter. Patches can be either square or round. I usually cut mine square. Like "Isaid shotgun" I use Crisco as a lube or some homemade bear grease/beeswax lube a friend gave me.. Cotton pillow ticking is a good material. You have to pretty much experiment in order to get the correct thickness.

As you are in Muskoka I would think that Epps would be the place to go. You can also mail order from Cabelas, Wholesale Sports, LeBaron, Shooters Choice etc.

I have a .50 cal Lyman Trade rifle and it is a reliable and accurate shooter. I use 50 grs of FFFg with a patched round ball as a target/small game load. I also have used Lee REAL conicals with 70-90 grs of FFg or Pyrodex RS.

Your 2nd rifle is a "Hawken" style of some sort. Is there no name on it? Most Lyman's were made by Investarms.
 
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Goldenlakepete said:
If you don't mind that it's not on the "Web" - the best place to get all the info you need is Sam Fadala's book "The Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual". You can order it on-line from Wholesale Sports.
Click to expand...

I agree - pick up Fadala's book you won't regret it.

Also agree that the 2nd rifle appears to be an Investarms/Lyman product. Very good rifles.
 
zelly said:
No markings on the second rifle at all to indicate a manufacturer
Click to expand...

I can't make it out but in the last photo of your .45 just towards the muzzle of the "Black Powder Only" stamping - is there a large letter "I" in a box? If so - that's the Investarms mark.
 
"...to get knowledgable on..." Lyman's BP Handbook and Loading Manual. Written by Sam Fadala for them. Good read about everything BP related too. Runs around $30 in gun shops. Remember that BP is loaded by volumn and not by weight.
Don't think Lyman ever put out kits. Whole rifles only. CVA did, at one time, though. They've gone entirely in-line now.
"...except patches so..." Discount fabric shop for pillow ticking. Ask the women working there. They're used to guys asking questions.
"...gowged it!..." Gouged, perhaps? Clumsy. snicker.
 
My Lyman Great Plains rifle (built from a kit in the '80's) is a .50 cal. I cast my own .495 round balls, from pure lead, and use 100% cotton that I got at a fabric store. Cut or tear the fabric into strips about the width of the barrel, more or less. As Goldenlakepete suggested, set the strip over the muzzle (after you put in the powder charge, of course) set the ball on top, short start the ball flush, then cut off the strip flush with the muzzle. This method gives you a consistently centered patch every time, plus you never need run out of precut patches. You will have to experiment with patch thickness until you get it right. As for the tee shirt material, my experience has been that it is not thick enough, and usually burns through before it leaves the muzzle, effecting accuracy, and possibly exposing your bore to leading. Also, some tee shirts are synthetic, and tend to melt, and may gunk up your bore with melted polyester goo. As for latch lube, opinions vary. I always used spit, but through some experimentation after many years of mediocre accuracy, I found that water soluble cutting oil (Princess Auto) and water work way better. My method now is to soak the strips in the oil/water solution, let it dry, and then use the relatively dry, but oily, patch. I learned this from a guy named Dutch Schoultz, who publishes a booklet about muzzleloader accuracy. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com. He sells the pamphlet for about $20, and it's well worth the money, if you want to get some accuracy out of your new toys. Its kinda folksy, hand drawn sketches, etc, but it sure helped me.
Since nobody has mentioned it yet, you need to learn how to properly clean your rifles. Plenty has been written on this forum about it, but if you like, I can help. Just let me know.
Glen
 
Goldenlakepete said:
I can't make it out but in the last photo of your .45 just towards the muzzle of the "Black Powder Only" stamping - is there a large letter "I" in a box? If so - that's the Investarms mark.
Click to expand...

I had a 50 cal one like the 2nd one. It was sold in a box that said safari arms. But was made by invest arms. It shot very well with ball and patch. You could buy it as a kit or as a whole rifle. I loved that rifle, but the hunting camp that had a bp season was sold...
 
BSA Jack said:
Zelly, Here is a link to some good info on muzzle loading one of the members posted on here a while back.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...wder-percussion-for-beginners-start-to-finish
Click to expand...

I never could figure out why they didn't sticky my thread for beginners. 2 other forums stickied it within 6 hours of me posting it. oh well.....

The second rifle does appear to be a investarms model. The brass style of patch box gives it away,with the wood in the middle of it. Fairly well made as I have one in 50 cal and yours is a hawken style of rifle.When the hammer is cocked,squeeze the back trigger till you hear a click,that then sets the front trigger to set trigger mode.
 
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