Info on vz58 cz858 gremlin how to fix

Please correct me if I use some improper terminology, but from what I can figure out:

When the safety is engaged (i.e. perpendicular to the barrel) the rear trigger unit tab is forced downward (against spring pressure) past the base of the lower half of the “L” shaped sear, by the shape of the safety. In this condition any pull of the trigger will not release the cocked striker as the trigger has been disconnected from the sear.

(something like this photo, except the rifle would be cocked and the striker on the sear)
cz858trigger010Medium.jpg


However when the safety selector is turned to fire (parallel to the barrel), this now allows the trigger unit spring to push the rear trigger unit tab up and catch the base of the “L” shaped sear. In this case the trigger and sear unit are now connected and a pull of the trigger will allow a cocked rifle to fire.

cz858trigger009Medium.jpg


In the case of my (I’m told) unfired rifle, it will not fire because the small tab connected to the trigger unit won’t catch the base of the “L” shaped sear in either position, leaving the trigger disconnected from the sear.

So, sound familiar? I stared at it all night last night trying to figure out what to do next but I’m unsure. I’ll probably take out the pins and pull things apart, then reassemble to see if that helps, but I can’t see anything binding, blocking etc.

Any other suggestions? Is this a common problem?


(Thanks to Curtton for the use of his photos)
 
MBman said:
In the case of my (I’m told) unfired rifle, it will not fire because the small tab connected to the trigger unit won’t catch the base of the “L” shaped sear in either position, leaving the trigger disconnected from the sear.

Any other suggestions? Is this a common problem?
Click to expand...


My rifle came with a test target and a nice group... did yours?

Did you buy it new or used?
If it was used, I'd be a little choked as the person basically sold you something that they knew wasn't working (bubba'd?)

I think this problem is very uncommon.

***EDIT*** Are you sure the safety is Off :D


.
 
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MBman said:
In the case of my (I’m told) unfired rifle, it will not fire because the small tab connected to the trigger unit won’t catch the base of the “L” shaped sear in either position, leaving the trigger disconnected from the sear.

So, sound familiar? I stared at it all night last night trying to figure out what to do next but I’m unsure. I’ll probably take out the pins and pull things apart, then reassemble to see if that helps, but I can’t see anything binding, blocking etc.

Any other suggestions? Is this a common problem?
Click to expand...

basically your sear disconnect (SD) are not engaging the sear when safety is off , right ?

first , remove the sear and check to see when the safety is moved to fire , the SD should move up a bit .

if it doesnt then the SD could be misalign , if not then check the SD spring is not broken or the SD is binded .
 
Yep, that's what is happening.

When I got the rifle few months ago (a second hand VZ58s from Marstar that a fellow CGN'r bought this year but didn't use), I tried out its function using a few a-zoom snap caps and everything seemed OK so I threw it in the safe. But Yesterday as I was cleaning it for the first time and watching and learning how it's innards worked, the SD started to fail to move up and down that 1mm or so when the safety goes on/off. It would do this once in a while, then more, now the sear disconnect fails to engage the sear at all. I wiggled around a bit to see if things were binding but couldn't find anything unusual. I'll just have to start taking it apart a bit more and see what happens.

Question: What causes the SD to move up and down as the safety is turned on/off? Is it that the trigger mechanism spring us putting constant upward pressure on the SD, and when put on, the safety switch simply blocks it from engaging the sear?
 
MBman said:
Question: What causes the SD to move up and down as the safety is turned on/off? Is it that the trigger mechanism spring us putting constant upward pressure on the SD, and when put on, the safety switch simply blocks it from engaging the sear?
Click to expand...


yes, the trigger spring puts a constant upward pressure on the SD so when the safety lever (SL) is rotated to fire , there is a cut out in the SL shaft so the SD goes up to fill the space and engages with the sear . when SL rotates to safe then the shaft rotate to no cut out , moving the SD down , preventing it from engaging with the sear .
 
After reading all the "gremlin" threads and studying the manual and my rifle for a week I have come to the conclusion that Obiwanbonjovi's solution is the only real solution.

What he proposes is that a tab be welded on the left side of the carrier.

That in effect extends the ramped hump that pushes the dis-connector down and allows the sear to come up and hook the striker.

That would in fact permanently and effectively deal with the problem.

Here is his picture again:

gremlinmod.jpg


Obiwanbonjovi says:

From what I have read all over this page it seems the general belief is that the gremlin is caused by the bolt carrier failing to disconnect the trigger. Until today that was my understanding. Wrong, the carriers seem to disconnect trigger every time. The problem is caused by the striker re-connecting trigger, by forcing the sear down too far during its rearward travel.

To me that makes a lot of sense therefore I am very inclined to conclude that no matter what causes the sear to reconnect, if the dis-connector is kept down and out of the way until the striker nose is past the point where it can push the sear down far enough to reconnect, that would effectively and reliably solve the problem.

So I guess what I am saying is that this seems to me to be the magic bullet that would fix the gremlin, no matter what is causing it.

Can anyone think of why this might not work? Anything at all?


P.S.

I have a CZ/VZ gremlin repair kit coming from Wolverine. Does anyone know what that is and what it fixes? Any pics of it?
 
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I think we are talking about two different gremlins, here- If I read his problem correctly the big h shaped spring isnt applying upward pressure to the bottom of his "L shaped sear"...If that is the case check the back leg of the spring where it feeds into the rear of the receiver and see that it is firmly in place. The pin that holds the rear dust shield in place actually gets its spring pressure (that makes the pop feel) you get when you slide the pin to the right to remove the dust shield. If that pin is pushed all the way out, the spring may pop up, under that pin is a detent that applies pressure to your h shaped spring...maybe its gone? The h shaped spring spring should be firmly in place; perhaps its just weak?
Build2.JPG

I stole this pic of someone elses page, the long ones have dimples, the one on the left makes your safety 'click', the short one applies upward pressure to the "L shaped sear" and the long one on the right feeds into the back of the receiver and should have a detent pin pushed into the dimple on it to apply pressure to the dust cover release pin. I got new springs with my spare parts kit from Wolverine, a good value at $90 or $100 because it came with all the original guts from the gun in a bag.
 
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I think there is only one "gremlin" that people have been misdiagnosing. The symptom is always the same. No cocking of the trigger and a light primer dimple.

This problem will be addressed in all cases by the welded tab...or so I hope.
 
A stronger spring is a band aid for the problem. bending the spring up will temporarily alleviate the gremlin. The welded tab should fix the problem completely. There have been zero reports of the gremlin on any of the rifles imported into u.s. with the welded tab.
 
I have about 500 rnds through mine, and I have no gremlins. Must I worry about them? I love this thing and was going to buy a chrome lined restricted version as well.
 
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