Info wanted: Martini-Henry rifles

alexD92

alexD92

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Hi guys,
I'm looking for a little schooling on the Martini-Henry rifle. Been watching a few films with the great British Empire and all its little colonies and I think I've caught the bug for one of these little ladies.

Now, I snooped around a little and it seems that shooting these rifles is not for the usual plinker. Need to roll your own ammo,etc.

Now, getting to my point. I'm interested in a good looking MH, with the possibility of eventually rolling my own and taking it out to shoot. How much would such a specimen demand?

I understand I'm asking to be spoon fed right now, I'm sure if I dig I'll find all my answers but this way I can elaborate further if the need arises. Nevertheless, is there such a thing as a Canadian marked Martini-Henry? I enjoy having pieces of my nations history.

Thanks,
Alex

PS.
I was unsure whether this thread belonged here or in the milsurp. Mods I'd appreciate if it was placed accordingly in such event.
 
The guns are relatively cheap, it is the shells and dies that are expensive. I sold a martini last weekend for $400 which is towards the lower end of the scale. Your cheapest source of brass might be 24 guage brass shotgun shells reformed into 450 577 but the problem is that you need some forming dies to go that route
there are two major forms of martinis; short lever ones and long lever models. The long lever version was used in the tropical areas and the longer lever was supposed to assist extracting shells stuck because of corrosion.
earlier guns have a sort of hump or sharp transition from back of the receiver to the wrist area while later ones have a more gradual transition. You can also find guns rebarreled to .303 as well as small frame martinis and sporting martinis.
hope that helps for a beginning

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks mooncoon, that's the sort of info I was looking for. Now, are there any particularities that would rise red flags when buying of these?
 
Actually, it's the later versions that had the hump. The Mk.I and Mk.II were the versions used in the Zulu War, and the Mk.III was introduced based on lessons learned from it. Canada purchased some Mk.IIIs around the time of the North-West Rebellion, but they were used mainly by regimental shooting teams and at the Infantry School. They were never standard issue, and are pretty rare because of it.

The "long lever" model, the Mk.IV, was the one with the hump. They were actually originally made in .402 calibre and known as the Enfield-Martini (as opposed to the .303 Martini-Enfield), but by then the .303 and the Lee-Metford were already on the horizon and it was decided that it was pointless to introduce a new round when it would be replaced in a few years anyways. They were then converted to .450 and became the Martini-Henry Mk.IV. These are quite common at the moment, as lots came out of the supply IMA brought in from Nepal.

There are also the Martini-Enfield .303s, of which there are a number of variations. Big thing if you're looking for a shooter is of course going to the be the bore - I've got a Mk.III in great external condition with an absolutely wrecked bore, so make sure you check. And of course, as others have covered, ammunition is very uncommon and very hard to make, so shooting it won't be an easy proposition.
 
Brass is relatively easy to find, it is expensive though... so when you get some take care of them, by annealing and cleaning them thoroughly between reloading

Jameson brass is nice and solid

I hand-load mine, without any gadgets or toggles, its powder, wadding then a lead bullet of proper diameter its neither very hard or a mystic art.

Excellent rifles!

Here's mine, I bought her from a board member 2 or 3 years ago "without the bayonet and strap"...I stripped and cleaned her up and wham-mo here she is after maybe 7-800 rounds.

One of my favourite rifles, Buy one you wont be disappointed, keep her clean and treat her well and she will still be field worthy for your grandkids to shoot in 80 years:D



Martinicomplete001-2.jpg
 
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Well, fair enough if you've got the brass, most of the guys reloading them that I've talked to are converting 24 gauge brass shotshells and I understand it's a real pain.
 
Yup 2 things for sure britishmilitariaforms by yuku will answer all your questions from stampings to releoading and brass is either expensive or labour intensive. 20 rounds is now pushing $100 with shipping from say bullseye reloading in Alberta.
There is actually a fair number of MH in Canada most are MK IV's and are reimported from India not Nepal. MK I,II,III are out there as well with an untouched Canadian MK I being the ultimate score
The Napal stash is sold internationally by IMA [international military antiques] and Atlanta Cutlery consists of some real MH's and a lot of francottes and gehendras [these kind of resemble MH but are definantly not for my collection] Study your stamping on the form and make sure you get an actaul British rifle They sell full retail but do have some clean it yourself rifles and specials/sales shipping /importing to Canada could be expensive but they say it is hassle free.
As I get older I sometimes doubt my memory but think I remember seeing ad's in hot rod magazines [possibly US] when I was a lad That promised an actual Martini Henry rifle with the purchase of a case of Fram oil filters!!!!!!.
As much as I love MH's I shoot mostly Snider Enfields lots in Canada and easy to make ammo
Dave M
 
Nyles said:
Actually, it's the later versions that had the hump. The Mk.I and Mk.II were the versions used in the Zulu War, and the Mk.III was introduced based on lessons learned from it. Canada purchased some Mk.IIIs around the time of the North-West Rebellion, but they were used mainly by regimental shooting teams and at the Infantry School. They were never standard issue, and are pretty rare because of it.

The "long lever" model, the Mk.IV, was the one with the hump. They were actually originally made in .402 calibre and known as the Enfield-Martini (as opposed to the .303 Martini-Enfield), but by then the .303 and the Lee-Metford were already on the horizon and it was decided that it was pointless to introduce a new round when it would be replaced in a few years anyways. They were then converted to .450 and became the Martini-Henry Mk.IV. These are quite common at the moment, as lots came out of the supply IMA brought in from Nepal.

There are also the Martini-Enfield .303s, of which there are a number of variations. Big thing if you're looking for a shooter is of course going to the be the bore - I've got a Mk.III in great external condition with an absolutely wrecked bore, so make sure you check. And of course, as others have covered, ammunition is very uncommon and very hard to make, so shooting it won't be an easy proposition.
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hmm i dont know what your talking about the MK 4 was made for the .577-450 round nothing else later thay where converted
 
"They were actually originally made in .402 calibre and known as the Enfield-Martini "

Yes, the .402 were converted to 450/577 round. Those converted rifles are known in Collector's circles as MKIV Type A rifle, easy to recognise because of the small knox form chambers. The rifle above has the long knox form chamber, two type exist the B and C and those were made as new rifle in the 450/577 caliber. I have never seen a MKIV converted to .303 cailber, the .303 conversions were usually done on MKII and MKIII rifles.
 
If you buy a .577-450 and have access to a lathe or know a machinist, I have a .pdf how-to for turning reloadable cartridges(actually a removable chamber sleeve) out of 3/4" brass bar stock. 70 grains of BP. E-Mail me if you want it. toheir@hotmail.com
.303 M-H's in decent condition aren't easy to come by.
 
If you are looking for a Canadian marked Martini Henry it will be either a Mk.1 of which I believe 1,200 were purchased by Canada......or a Mk.3 which were issued to some Canadian units. I have had three MH Mk. 3's which were marked to the 5th British Columbia Regiment and one Mk.1 which is Canadian and is marked "RG". They were all very nice. They are not cheap by any standards. The only cheap ones you will find will be the Mk.4's, none of which ever saw Canadian use and which have a slightly larger bore size than the Mk. 1,2,or 3 or any of the ones which were imported from Nepal which should not be included here. Yes, getting set up to reload is a bit expensive but once done you are away. Keep looking as the Canadian marked ones are out there. Dave
 
I use to make a number of these inserts at one time, but found that every chamber on these guns is of a different size.
Same with the bore sizes, all over the place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/alflipo/inserts.jpg
 
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Dantforth said:
If you are looking for a Canadian marked Martini Henry it will be either a Mk.1 of which I believe 1,200 were purchased by Canada......or a Mk.3 which were issued to some Canadian units. I have had three MH Mk. 3's which were marked to the 5th British Columbia Regiment and one Mk.1 which is Canadian and is marked "RG". They were all very nice. They are not cheap by any standards. The only cheap ones you will find will be the Mk.4's, none of which ever saw Canadian use and which have a slightly larger bore size than the Mk. 1,2,or 3 or any of the ones which were imported from Nepal which should not be included here. Yes, getting set up to reload is a bit expensive but once done you are away. Keep looking as the Canadian marked ones are out there. Dave
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my MK 4 is canadian marked :)
 
"my MK 4 is canadian marked"

I would like to see a photo of that marking, first time in 40 years of collecting I have ever heard of one marked in that way.
 
I have a 1883 MKIII canadian marked, but only with the D C, and another stamped mark just up from the butt plate. Its is in 577-450 cal, and have finnaly got all the dies, brass and proper mould to reload. Its a blast to shoot and am hoping to get out to fine tune the sights. shoots roughly 6" high and 3" left @ 100yrds. will have to post some pics when i get back home
 
JP said:
"my MK 4 is canadian marked"

I would like to see a photo of that marking, first time in 40 years of collecting I have ever heard of one marked in that way.
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my old camera cant get real good close ups my new one can but i dont have it set up on this computer (dont have the disc that came with it) sorry :redface:
 
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