Information from Brenneke USA/ Brenneke slug FAQ
- Thread starter Brutus
- Start date
On Friday I posted a question to the NRCAN website. If there is an answer or explanation, we might as well get it from the best possible source. And I Just got an answer this morning ... here's the cut-and-pasted question, and their reply ...
Your inquiry/Votre demande
Hello,
I am curious to know the reason(s) for the apparent unavailability of a certain type of firearm ammunition here in Canada. I have been told (perhaps incorrectly) that NRCAN has not issued its "approval" for the highly-regarded line of Brenneke shotgun shells. That may not be the case. Perhaps the manufacturer (for whatever reason) has not submitted the product for NRCAN approval. I live on a 4000-acre wilderness ranch on the eastern slope of the Rockies, snugged right up beside the mountains, and this is a true wilderness situation. If I am on foot I carry a 12-gauge shotgun for personal defence in the woods. And Brenneke slugs from Germany (commonly available in the U.S. and especially Alaska) are widely-regarded as (hands-down) the very best shells for protection against big dangerous animals. I would very much appreciate it if you folks could clarify this situation for me. Is this hold-up a regulatory issue? Many thanks.
And here's their answer ...
Reply to your inquiry/En réponse à votre demande
Hi,
I understand your concern but no one has applied to obtain authorization of Brenneke cartridges in Canada and that is why they are not on the list of authorized explosives.
However, as per section 45 of the Explosives Regulations, 2013, you may import up to 5000 rounds of ammunition for your personal use only without obtaining authorization or an explosives importation permit.
Should you have further questions, do not hesitate to contact us by phone at 613.948.5200.
So, it would appear that ... for whatever the reason ... the folks at Brenneke's "head office" can't be bothered with the Canadian market. I wonder if Brenneke shells can be purchased (and shipped) from a retailer in the U.K. or Germany or perhaps Sith Ifrica?
Your inquiry/Votre demande
Hello,
I am curious to know the reason(s) for the apparent unavailability of a certain type of firearm ammunition here in Canada. I have been told (perhaps incorrectly) that NRCAN has not issued its "approval" for the highly-regarded line of Brenneke shotgun shells. That may not be the case. Perhaps the manufacturer (for whatever reason) has not submitted the product for NRCAN approval. I live on a 4000-acre wilderness ranch on the eastern slope of the Rockies, snugged right up beside the mountains, and this is a true wilderness situation. If I am on foot I carry a 12-gauge shotgun for personal defence in the woods. And Brenneke slugs from Germany (commonly available in the U.S. and especially Alaska) are widely-regarded as (hands-down) the very best shells for protection against big dangerous animals. I would very much appreciate it if you folks could clarify this situation for me. Is this hold-up a regulatory issue? Many thanks.
And here's their answer ...
Reply to your inquiry/En réponse à votre demande
Hi,
I understand your concern but no one has applied to obtain authorization of Brenneke cartridges in Canada and that is why they are not on the list of authorized explosives.
However, as per section 45 of the Explosives Regulations, 2013, you may import up to 5000 rounds of ammunition for your personal use only without obtaining authorization or an explosives importation permit.
Should you have further questions, do not hesitate to contact us by phone at 613.948.5200.
So, it would appear that ... for whatever the reason ... the folks at Brenneke's "head office" can't be bothered with the Canadian market. I wonder if Brenneke shells can be purchased (and shipped) from a retailer in the U.K. or Germany or perhaps Sith Ifrica?
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
^IIRC, it' falls on the vendor's financial shoulders to submit 10,000 (?) rounds for testing (?) and subsequent government approval. And not the manufacturer's responsibility, I think so myself.
Only the government knows why this is sssoooo fecking important in the last decade or thereabouts.
Only the government knows why this is sssoooo fecking important in the last decade or thereabouts.
Et tu, Brute ...
Hmmm ... that would explain a lot of things. The "payback-time" on the up-front cost of just getting the shotshells OK'd would be wicked. If that is the case, it is unfortunate that we cannot trust the presumably-thorough "vetting" process of the firearm-savvy hi-tech nation (just south of us, mostly) that somehow put a man on the moon in ... like ... 1969.
And, later, Egg McMuffins!
It sounds like an episode of a British comedy ... a hybrid of Monty Python and Yes, Minister ... with a touch of Black Adder ...
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Hey Can-down,
I don't know for sure. Based on comments from CGN'ers who posted here in this "Sticky" and in a similar nearby Brenneke thread started recently by me, I think that somebody (either the foreign manufacturer or the potential Canadian distributor/importer ... likely the latter) has to submit an application to NRCAN (probably with documentation and probably a filing fee and a very large whack/sample of the ammunition in question).
It would appear to be an expensive and unnecessary bureaucratic "jumping-through-the-hoop" process that nobody wants to pay for.
And redundant too. As I pointed-out elsewhere, one would assume that the SAAMI standards (that the Americans would obviously demand and expect) would also be good enough for the Canadian bureaucrats.
Why doesn't somebody just phone the phone number and ask? The reply from NRCAN did finish-off with ...
Should you have further questions, do not hesitate to contact us by phone at 613.948.5200.
Surely it's not a Top Secret issue ... just a little difficult/tedious to locate online ...
EDIT: Here it is, I think. http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/publications/guidelines/9943
A careful reading would indicate that a huge sample-size is actually not required (contrary to what has been suggested elsewhere) and there is no mention of a required fee for the authorization process. It would seem that the switch to bilingual packaging would be the greatest hurdle ... unless I am missing something. It would also appear that the authorization process is to be done/initiated by the manufacturer, not the importer or distributor ... as has been suggested elsewhere.
Unless I have (once again) missed or overlooked something.
Which would not have been the first time ...
I don't know for sure. Based on comments from CGN'ers who posted here in this "Sticky" and in a similar nearby Brenneke thread started recently by me, I think that somebody (either the foreign manufacturer or the potential Canadian distributor/importer ... likely the latter) has to submit an application to NRCAN (probably with documentation and probably a filing fee and a very large whack/sample of the ammunition in question).
It would appear to be an expensive and unnecessary bureaucratic "jumping-through-the-hoop" process that nobody wants to pay for.
And redundant too. As I pointed-out elsewhere, one would assume that the SAAMI standards (that the Americans would obviously demand and expect) would also be good enough for the Canadian bureaucrats.
Why doesn't somebody just phone the phone number and ask? The reply from NRCAN did finish-off with ...
Should you have further questions, do not hesitate to contact us by phone at 613.948.5200.
Surely it's not a Top Secret issue ... just a little difficult/tedious to locate online ...
EDIT: Here it is, I think. http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/publications/guidelines/9943
A careful reading would indicate that a huge sample-size is actually not required (contrary to what has been suggested elsewhere) and there is no mention of a required fee for the authorization process. It would seem that the switch to bilingual packaging would be the greatest hurdle ... unless I am missing something. It would also appear that the authorization process is to be done/initiated by the manufacturer, not the importer or distributor ... as has been suggested elsewhere.
Unless I have (once again) missed or overlooked something.
Which would not have been the first time ...
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The folks at Brenneke USA were too busy to respond to my über-polite query about the challenge of selling (from their perspective) and buying (from our perspective) their state-of-the-art shotgun shells in Canada.
As I have been saying for years ... some folks just make far too much money far too easily. It's quite common ...
I'll bet these folks continue to wear sea-green polyester leisure-suits ... with them white belts and matching loafers ... and still make $100K / month.
Hard-nosed Yankee traders ...
As I have been saying for years ... some folks just make far too much money far too easily. It's quite common ...
I'll bet these folks continue to wear sea-green polyester leisure-suits ... with them white belts and matching loafers ... and still make $100K / month.
Hard-nosed Yankee traders ...
I also have been unsuccessful in finding Brenneke slugs to use in my 9.3x72R/16 gauge drilling. I did find a very similar design that seems to be a copy of the Brenneke. It's called the DGS slug (dangerous game slug) and is described as follows: "The DGS slug is a one-piece (unitized) design with a finely detailed molded slug structure and a tight fitting gas seal. Sitting between the gas seal and the lead slug is a high-strength plastic support structure. In flight, the gas seal and column function as a shuttlecock, steering the slug toward the point of aim. The gas seal and wad structure further augment the cylindrical aspect (i.e., lengthening the overall projectile), an ingenious way of improving accuracy without making the projectile clumsy." I believe Brenneke was the ingenious developer but now we have wonderful plastics to mold the column and gas seal.
The DGS slug is available from Ballistic Products, Inc. (www.ballisticproducts.com) an American company. In Canada, however, their shotgun supplies are available from Bilozir Fine Guns (403.938.6066/bilozir.net) out of Calgary. They do mail order.
Here are a couple of DGS slug loads that are close to what I'm wanting. My aiming point is the 102 yd. circle of shots that I get shooting the rifle barrel using factory Sellier and Bellot 9.3x72R ammunition with a 193 grain soft-point flat-head bullet. I used already primed 16 gauge Cheddite hulls that I shortened to 2.5" on my band saw to fit the left barrel of my drilling. The 16 gauge DGS slug weighs 1 ounce. 3-Shot group #1 contained 14.0 grains Hi-Skor 700-X powder, followed by a 16 gauge obturator card, the DGS slug and sealed with Water Glass (Sodium Silicate Solution). 3-Shot group #2 was the same but only 13.0 grains of powder was used. Group #1 (1078+/- 4 ft/sec) was 7" high right above the target while Group#2 (1021+/-21ft/sec) was 3" right and 6" high. Lots more testing to do and including black powder loads.
While this is not a genuine Brenneke slug it will do. I also will install a 22 Winchester Magnum Insert barrel into the right shotgun barrel sighted in for about 25 Yards (grouse medicine). Lots of fun this summer.
The DGS slug is available from Ballistic Products, Inc. (www.ballisticproducts.com) an American company. In Canada, however, their shotgun supplies are available from Bilozir Fine Guns (403.938.6066/bilozir.net) out of Calgary. They do mail order.
Here are a couple of DGS slug loads that are close to what I'm wanting. My aiming point is the 102 yd. circle of shots that I get shooting the rifle barrel using factory Sellier and Bellot 9.3x72R ammunition with a 193 grain soft-point flat-head bullet. I used already primed 16 gauge Cheddite hulls that I shortened to 2.5" on my band saw to fit the left barrel of my drilling. The 16 gauge DGS slug weighs 1 ounce. 3-Shot group #1 contained 14.0 grains Hi-Skor 700-X powder, followed by a 16 gauge obturator card, the DGS slug and sealed with Water Glass (Sodium Silicate Solution). 3-Shot group #2 was the same but only 13.0 grains of powder was used. Group #1 (1078+/- 4 ft/sec) was 7" high right above the target while Group#2 (1021+/-21ft/sec) was 3" right and 6" high. Lots more testing to do and including black powder loads.
While this is not a genuine Brenneke slug it will do. I also will install a 22 Winchester Magnum Insert barrel into the right shotgun barrel sighted in for about 25 Yards (grouse medicine). Lots of fun this summer.
