Inline ML and minie or maxi projectiles.

Smokepole

Smokepole

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This thread is a branch off nearnorthguy's post about ML accuracy. Good accuracy was attained by using very expensive 'designer' bullets, but the cost is a bit prohibitive for lots of fun shooting and plinking.

Does anybody here have experience loading cast lead projectiles in a modern .45cal inline ML with a 1:28 twist?
 
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The now defunct White Rifles was one of the few manufacturers...or quite possibly the only....that designed an in-line for use with bore-size conicals. One of the issues with shooting conicals from in-lines is the speeds at which most guys are shooting and of course the faster rifling twist. Bores need to be very precise to accurately deliver bore-size conicals when you add these two factors to the equation. It's not that the other in-lines have tolerances that are that much worse than many of the caplocks, it's just that speed and fast rotation are not friends of the bore-size conical.
 
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Here is a quote from a fellow named Hawg Haggen from another forum.
"I think the twist on those is 1:28 or therabouts. Too fast for round balls. Maxi Balls, Lee Reals or any of the other conicals with 80-90 grs. of powder should work pretty good. May have to play with powder charges to get it to shoot it's best."

Don't know him or if he knows what he's talking about though...
 
Smokepole said:
Here is a quote from a fellow named Hawg Haggen from another forum.
"I think the twist on those is 1:28 or therabouts. Too fast for round balls. Maxi Balls, Lee Reals or any of the other conicals with 80-90 grs. of powder should work pretty good. May have to play with powder charges to get it to shoot it's best."

Don't know him or if he knows what he's talking about though...
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Ya, that sounds reasonable but the problem lies with the fact that most in-line shooters are utilizing 100-150 grain loads and pellets are producing a bit of extra velocity over loose....with Pyrodex anyhow. Keep the charge low and I think you could expect reasonable accuracy but start pushing projectiles fast from most in-lines and jacketed sabots are most often the best choice.

An additional problem lies with the fact that lead obterates excessively when pushed with too great of pressure and while not a big deal if a barrel has close tolerances, it can be a disaster in a barrel without, especially if that barrel is a bit overbore where the bullet is seated and tighter up the tube. I suspect this is where most accuracy problems lie with pushing lead conicals too fast from most in-lines.
 
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I have a number of lead cast bullets here for others of my rifles but none seem to fit the CVA I have, properly. I believe that if you could get a good tight fit but not tight enough to cause the bullet to deform while being loaded they might work. Putting a .457 bullet through a resizer of the right diameter would be a good start. Someone must have tried this. I wonder if Ben Hunchak of MT Chambers Supply could address this issue? Dave
 
Thegunworks.com has used minnie molds for $20, if you go that route you'll also need bore butter for lubing them.
I've cast minnies for a 58cal musketoon, worked excellent.

Cheers nessy.
 
I buy the hornady bulk sabots and put a cast bullet in them,bullets can be cast out of any scrap lead as there is no bullet to barrel contact. Accuracy is equal to a jacketed bullet at a fraction of the cost. Inlines and conicals rarely work together but a cast bullet in a sabot works great.
Regards
 
doubleman said:
I buy the hornady bulk sabots and put a cast bullet in them,bullets can be cast out of any scrap lead as there is no bullet to barrel contact. Accuracy is equal to a jacketed bullet at a fraction of the cost. Inlines and conicals rarely work together but a cast bullet in a sabot works great.
Regards
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I agree with your comments about lead if you keep velocities sub 1,800-1,900but it doesn't work worth a darn in sabots when you start pushing it beyond that.
 
Very interesting question.. I guess you have two options, one is the cast a lead projectile to fit the barrel- Maxi/Minnie etc, or cast a bullet to fit inside of a sabot.

There's a similar thread over on CastBoolits.com
 
With the sabot and cast/jacketed bullet option you can use any 45cal .451 handgun bullet with the black hornady sabot or any 44 cal .429 handgun bullet with the green Hornady sabot. As sheephunter said 2000 fps is about the max but most 100grn loads with a 240+grn bullet will not reach that velocity anyway. For an economical target load you will not be shooting 150 grn charges if cheap is your goal.
Regards
 
doubleman said:
With the sabot and cast/jacketed bullet option you can use any 45cal .451 handgun bullet with the black hornady sabot or any 44 cal .429 handgun bullet with the green Hornady sabot. As sheephunter said 2000 fps is about the max but most 100grn loads with a 240+grn bullet will not reach that velocity anyway. For an economical target load you will not be shooting 150 grn charges if cheap is your goal.
Regards
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Ya, I get around 1,850fps with 100 grains of Pyrodex....well within lead velocity range.
 
I was looking through a manual online for the Remington Genesis. It states you can shoots sabots, conicals and patched round balls. Its got a 1:28 twist. I am not sure how well they would shoot though?
 
I use the same sabot and cast .45 bullet like you Doubleman. Works awesome. Accuracy is great too. No problem to shoot 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards with My Traditions Buckhunter. I bagged my first blackpowder buck this year with that combination. I use 80 grains of FF grain size Hodgdon 777 to propell it. Works great but I haven't cronographed it yet. I keep forgetting the crony when I go to the range.
Al
 
Note that the OP has a .45 cal ML, so the options are less for the sabots but there are some out there. I'm also looking to experiment with .45 sabots holding .357 mag or .40 S&W bullets in a 577/450 martini henry. Obviously not because I want to push it to high velocity ranges, but for lower cost plinking.
 
With a 45cal ML you can do the same thing but with the bulk Hornady blue sabot and any .357,9mm or 35cal rifle bullet cast or jacketed. It is best not to shoot the longer 35cal rifle bullets because the bullet sticks out of the sabot a lot and the twist of most rifles will not stabilize them. I had good results shooting 158grn(#358665)cast .357dia bullets and the performance on deer was decent and the first four deer I killed with a muzzleloader were with this bullet.
john@
Why would you bother with the sabot in the 577/450 when you could just load a .458 dia cast bullet.
 
The amount of bullet sticking out of the sabot is pretty well irrelevant in a standard length sabot as there is plenty of contact between the sabot and lands to stabilize.
 
sheephunter
The ammout of bullet sticking out of the sabot is relevant because it is nearly impossible to load the bullet straight as over half is out of the sabot. The stabilization issue is due to the twist not the bullet/sabot.
 
I'm not really sure, I thought it would be easier to reload, and easier on the rifle, lighter projectile / lighter load. But whaterver is cheaper will probably win out.

doubleman said:
john@
Why would you bother with the sabot in the 577/450 when you could just load a .458 dia cast bullet.
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john@
You can shoot a 325grn bullet rather than the 500grn and about 80grns+- of black powder and have a pretty good load that you can hunt with also.
Regards
 
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