Inter-Provincial Hunting Opportunities- a RANT

Duncan Idaho said:
The idea that if I want to hunt sheep in BC or the Yukon requires me to go through a guide service is so frustrating. I was told this was to ensure the safety of people hunting in the wilderness. I can guarantee I have more mountain experience then most guides operating in these regions, but yet any resident of those regions do not have any requirement to demonstrate their knowledge of bushcraft, navigation, weather, traversing rough terrain, etc. Very frustrating for me as I would be very safe in the wilderness but simply can't afford to contract a guide service.
Click to expand...


Safety and ensuring only legal animals were killed were part of the reason. They are both important concerns, but these days plenty of the guides operating in the mountains are imports from provinces east of the prairies or not even Canadian. Lots of Kiwi's are employed in the outfitting business in BC these days as wranglers and guides.

Ironically with the way the system is set up, it would be very possible that some dude from Ontario is the "guide" for a guy that has hunted his whole life around sheep and grizzlies in the Rockies of Alberta.
 
FLHTCUI said:
Yeah, aint that a biotch !!
Where is the rational there?
Fur bearing varmint and all, sheesh and I need to have a guide?
Rob
Click to expand...

I was just pointing out that just as he couldn't shoot coyotes in Saskatchewan; I basically can't do it the other way around either. The irony there is that coyotes are no licence, no limit and no closed season species in both provinces for residents, at least in most areas.
 
Dogleg said:
I was just pointing out that just as he couldn't shoot coyotes in Saskatchewan; I basically can't do it the other way around either. The irony there is that coyotes are no licence, no limit and no closed season species in both provinces for residents, at least in most areas.
Click to expand...

I know Dogleg, I was just adding some color commentary to the topic at hand.
What about Saskatchewan and Pheasant hunting?
That was a no go for Non Residents a number of years ago...wondering if it still is.
There where a couple of guys here in BC who got busted/convicted for poaching (15 years ago) all they did was go to Alberta and get a Win Card and had a family member do the hunter host thing if iirc.
The guide issue is just that a guide issue where they pay huge money for lease rights and fees the the government to operate in certain areas.
Non-residents want to play, pay the fee and takes your chances.
Rob
 
FLHTCUI said:
I know Dogleg, I was just adding some color commentary to the topic at hand.
What about Saskatchewan and Pheasant hunting?
That was a no go for Non Residents a number of years ago...wondering if it still is.
There where a couple of guys here in BC who got busted/convicted for poaching (15 years ago) all they did was go to Alberta and get a Win Card and had a family member do the hunter host thing if iirc.
The guide issue is just that a guide issue where they pay huge money for lease rights and fees the the government to operate in certain areas.
Non-residents want to play, pay the fee and takes your chances.
Rob
Click to expand...


I guess we don't have enough pheasants to share, maybe that will change some day. Other upland except for ptarmigan and waterfowl is OK though, even for aliens.
 
Non residents of Canada can hunt waterfowl or upland birds without a guide in Saskatchewan. Some have been making the trip from US to Canada for many, many years.
Pheasant hunting is restricted to residents of Saskatchewan.
Saskatchewan is not a particularly productive Pheasant jurisdiction, which is why many Canadians hunt in the Dakotas, where habitat management and stocking leads to higher Pheasant populations.
 
Did I miss...where is the OP from?

I live in NS at the moment. I knew, coming here, that hunting wasn't anything like out West. I also knew that I could still eat free lobster and hunt 75% of the game that I could hunt when I lived out west with marginally increased difficulty. But if I ever wanted to hunt Stone Sheep, or any other sheep but particularly Stones, I'd either have to move back to BC or win the lotto. No different than if I got horny to kill an Alaskan Brownie or a Bighorn in Alberta. That's just life. No sense in #####ing about it because the provinces will never just open their borders to non-resident hunters...the locals would lose their minds and the election results would be disastrous.
 
AR15meister said:
I don't disagree the resident should come first. I completely agree in fact.

But do you not think there could be some better way to open some limited opportunities to other Canadians?
Click to expand...

Not at the expense of tax paying Alberta residents. If we have an excess of a species, then by all means allow non residents to hunt those species, but limit the non resident hunting to those species. It doesn't bother me that I can't hunt mule deer or pheasant in Saskatchewan, because I understand why they restrict those species to residents.
 
stubblejumper said:
Not at the expense of tax paying Alberta residents. If we have an excess of a species, then by all means allow non residents to hunt those species, but limit the non resident hunting to those species. It doesn't bother me that I can't hunt mule deer or pheasant in Saskatchewan, because I understand why they restrict those species to residents.
Click to expand...
So true. People always want what they can't have, but the truth is every province and territory has tremendous opportunity, just have to appreciate it. When I moved from BC I was at first disappointed with hunting prospects in AB, but getting to know new areas and tactics has been a pretty cool ride.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Did I miss...where is the OP from?

I live in NS at the moment. I knew, coming here, that hunting wasn't anything like out West. I also knew that I could still eat free lobster and hunt 75% of the game that I could hunt when I lived out west with marginally increased difficulty. But if I ever wanted to hunt Stone Sheep, or any other sheep but particularly Stones, I'd either have to move back to BC or win the lotto. No different than if I got horny to kill an Alaskan Brownie or a Bighorn in Alberta. That's just life. No sense in #####ing about it because the provinces will never just open their borders to non-resident hunters...the locals would lose their minds and the election results would be disastrous.
Click to expand...

we have stone sheep here too ....
 
AR15meister said:
in the USA you can apply for tags in many states. Canadians can too. In fact, Canadians have more hunting opportunities in the USA than Canada.

I hired Cabelas TAGS division to manage my applications there. It is possible.
Click to expand...

That's for sure Many states are crawling with big game . Well managed...not like up here with groups claiming everything and shooting 24-7-365.
 
If BC was opened up to non-guided non-residents without the checks and balances of the cost of a GO or the limitations of the hunter host program it would be utterly raided. Too many species and opportunites live here, and areas like the Yukon and NWT that aren’t available elsewhere or only very limited elsewhere. Or the residents and tax payers would have their own opportunities slashed, which is ridiculous. The prime sheep areas are already buzzing with activity, trucks parked into the trees.

Pay taxes and live here, hunt for the price of a tag. Or hire an outfitter, and chip into the BC economy that way. When we were hunting Grizzlies up til last Oct, over 75% of the hunt rate was spent back into B.C. in equipment made here like boats, BC resident guide wages, fuel, hotels, the $2400 for the tag, harvest, and tax, food etc. Then the income tax on the margin we pay our family’s way with, and our personal input to the economy.

Disclaimer I’m a guide outfitter, BC born and bred, and a BC resident hunter.
 
I like to hunt different areas without official guides when I can,(who wouldn't?) but accept that it usually isn't possible. That's just the way it is and if anything its getting worse not better.

The choice is usually "Take it or leave it". We don't always get what we want, or the way we want it.
 
Ardent said:
If BC was opened up to non-guided non-residents without the checks and balances of the cost of a GO or the limitations of the hunter host program it would be utterly raided. Too many species and opportunites live here, and areas like the Yukon and NWT that aren’t available elsewhere or only very limited elsewhere. Or the residents and tax payers would have their own opportunities slashed, which is ridiculous. The prime sheep areas are already buzzing with activity, trucks parked into the trees.

Pay taxes and live here, hunt for the price of a tag. Or hire an outfitter, and chip into the BC economy that way. When we were hunting Grizzlies up til last Oct, over 75% of the hunt rate was spent back into B.C. in equipment made here like boats, BC resident guide wages, fuel, hotels, the $2400 for the tag, harvest, and tax, food etc. Then the income tax on the margin we pay our family’s way with, and our personal input to the economy.

Disclaimer I’m a guide outfitter, BC born and bred, and a BC resident hunter.
Click to expand...

As someone who has hunted under the hunter host program limitations, I agree with this. I am from Alberta and there are lots of hunters squeezing pennies to afford the expense of gas to drive out and do the required scouting throughout the year to do successful mountain hunts. We are fortunate to have an over the counter sheep tag for residents to pursue sheep as a lifelong passion and I would not want this to be taken away, for out of province hunters with the means and desire for a one off sheep hunt, there are outfitters who can provide this opportunity.
 
There is actually a way to manage non resident hunting in BC for DIY hunters as well as those that would like to hire a guide.

Put every tag that is allotted to non residents on LEH.

Hunters that win the draw could hunt on their own or use an outfitter if they choose. This would result in the same amount of non resident hunters as we have now. So no swarms of hunters flooding the sheep mountains, just the same amount as we already have. And it could raise more cash for B.C. as hunters all have to pay to enter the draw.

Understandably, this isn’t a popular idea with outfitters- but it could be done, so the average joe could get a chance to hunt.
 
Non resident hunting always has to be justified one way or the other. One way is there is enough to go around and room to for a few non residents without the local people thinking that they are getting ripped off.

The other way is that the non-resident is willing to pay so much money that the government is willing to siphon off a percentage of tags for that high dollar income, even if some or all of the local hunters are mad about it. It's not that hard to spend 40,000 on a sheep hunt and that is all either imported money spent in province, or directly pald to the government. The local hunter spends money too, but since he lives there he will spend his money there eventually. Where and on what exactly is almost beside the point.

You're not going to find a solution where everyone is happy. A more realistic solution is one where nobody is happy. Most locals deep down would rather there be no non resident hunting except for their friends. They wouldn't be willing to fork the bill for the lost revenue though. The outfitters would rather that everyone had to go through them, while many locals wished there were no outfitters at all. The non residents would rather hunt for free but are happy to pay more for the privilege. Naturally that can't happen, so they must be charged so much that they are just on the verge of not going at all. That sort of works out, because there weren't enough to go around in the first place.

If a hunter is happy the system will just adjust accordingly and screw him harder. If everyone is mad about something it's working as designed. Fair is everyone pissed off. ;)
 
I’m actually completely happy with the present, and would like to see better resident-GO relations though those have been steadily improving the last couple years since the GOABC’s big mistake. The all non-resident tags being LEH admittedly I’m not keen on, as it would make planning ahead next to impossible for a GO. Just under a third of my clients are repeats now, for instance two of the last three groups just put down deposits for 2020, another Dogleg and I know who hunted spring this year put down for a 2019. If the best I could offer is “Good luck in the draw, maybe we can talk six months before the hunt!” I’d be in a tough spot.

Even at a 5 year planning block it’s still tight as you near the end of an allocation period unsure what the next brings, and what hunts you can accept a deposit for. B.C. has more demand on it than any other province or territory hunting wise, and there just aren’t enough stone sheep or grizzlies (hunt since closed in Oct) for everyone to take one just because the government is being nice. And with the current system, I’ve got my house and rental house remortgaged to pay for the territory, and couldn’t hang my home on the outcome of LEH draws. Those are trips guys plan two or three years out a lot of the time. So compromises are made as with all things in life. Imperfect system? Certainly. But there are much worse alternatives.
 
Last edited:
The reasons for Game Management in BC straight from the Provincial Game and Forest Warden.

"In British Columbia we have million of acres of mountains absolutely incapable of producing anything except timber and minerals... but every acre of these mountains is suitable for game or fur-bearing animals of some kind an should be made to produce revenue from that source, if from no other."

"...so that there will be sufficient for the people of the country and enough to spare to induce numerous tourists to come into the country and put large sums of money in circulation."

"There is nothing like field-sports for producing a healthy, hardy race, and a thorough knowledge of the use of firearms among the men of the country might some day be of great service in the defence of the Empire."

So there you have it, the Province wants the resident to be fit and skilled in the use of firearms and wants money to come into the Province from outside.
 
I cant ever, ever, see this happening. There isn't much love even within BC, lots of rural guys absolutely loathe the hoards that push in every September from the lower mainland with the 5th wheels and side by sides to blast everything. I'm pretty indifferent on the whole subject but being a "local" I hear lots of stories...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom