Interested in an Arisaka, what to look for, what to expect

BeaverMeat

BeaverMeat

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I know very little about WWII Japanese firearms. Not really interested in collecting a whole bunch, but I want at least one rifle for my wife. Reason: She is Japanese. Not of "ancestry", she is straight off the boat. (and, no. I didn't go to Japan and "buy" her companionship so now her whole family has moved in with me. lol) At first she was against, or afraid that I had a rifle; Which is a common reaction from the post-imperial Japanese mentality. She eventually accepted it (many "it's just a fancy steel tube and some wood" and "it can put food on the table" conversations) Now she gaining interest in shooting. So I figure I would buy her a rifle, namely an Arisaka.

Is it possible to find a safe and shootable Arisaka. I have seen some around, but most are rough. What would I expect to pay pay for such a rifle. Collectability or matching parts is not a priority, intact mums would be great. All I really care about is not having the receiver blowing up in her face.

Anyone have any incite or knowledge on these rifles? Thanks.
 
Some of the very LATE Type 99s had cast receivers, as did the last-ditch rifles.

Fortunately, there are not many of them left.

If she is Japanese, chances are that she is NOT in the Sumo-wrestler class. For a smaller woman, a 6.5 would be far better as the recoil is far more manageable. This means a Type 38. There were no troubles with ANY Type 38 rifles. They were so over-engineered for the little 6.5x50.5 Semi-Rimmed round that it wasn't even funny.

That said, they can be shockingly-accurate. I have a Type 38 here, a Rifle, which was a rescue case, dumped on me by a dealer for free because he wanted to "raise the quality of his junk rack". I steamed out more than 100 dents in the woodwork and removed most of a PINT of motor-oil from the wood. With Norma factory ammo, it put 4 out of 4 onto a NICKEL at 145 yards, iron sights, off the bags.

Rifling in these is a modified Metford type with only 4 grooves; from the front, the muzzle looks as if the bore is a rounded square. The bores last just about forever. I find that the cheap flatbase Remington bulk slugs can really shoot. Don't load too heavy and don't use hard-jacketed Match bullets: the deform too much in the Arisaka rifling and tend to come part in flight. I got a 20x30-foot group at 300 yards like this!

For a Carbine, you might try loading your shells with something like 4198. This very fast powder will burn the whole charge in the barrel, making less recoil and far less muzzle-flash and ear-splitting blast noise: turn a horrible experience into rather a nice one, in short. I am doing this with my Shorty Carcanos with good result; no reason it will not work in the much-stronger Arisaka action.

If you can't find brass (although Trade-Ex has it in big bags) you can make it by resizing and trimming .220 Swift.

BTW, fellow called "The Gopher" used a Type 38 on Peleliu in WW2. The Americans brought in their entire sniping school to take him out. WELL worth googling.

Hope this helps.
 
Late war Type 99's, as smellie says, should be avoided for shooting purposes. They can be distinguished by the wooden butt plate, dowelled into place. Another quick look feature of these late 99's is the front sight base doesn't have any "ears" on it, among other things (poor fit and finish). Nice to see your wife is taking interest in the shooting sports!
 
I have a late war rifle with cast receiver. In fact most of the metal parts are cast.
It is a "Special Naval Rifle". These were made at Nagoya Dockyard Arsenal. Very rough manufacture.
It is intended to be fired. The barrel has a barrel extension, into which the steel bolt locks. The bore is chrome plated. The cast receiver is just a housing, like the upper on an AR.

Unless it has sold, there is a Type 38 6.5mm rifle for sale at w ww.accuracyplus.biz, in Peterborough ON. $495. It has been really used. Lots of character. Has the chysanthemum. Bore is dark, shootable, would probably look better with a good cleaning. Japanese characters painted on the butt. Interesting, unmessed with rifle.
 
tiriaq said:
I have a late war rifle with cast receiver. In fact most of the metal parts are cast.
It is a "Special Naval Rifle". These were made at Nagoya Dockyard Arsenal. Very rough manufacture.
It is intended to be fired. The barrel has a barrel extension, into which the steel bolt locks. The bore is chrome plated. The cast receiver is just a housing, like the upper on an AR.

Unless it has sold, there is a Type 38 6.5mm rifle for sale at w ww.accuracyplus.biz, in Peterborough ON. $495. It has been really used. Lots of character. Has the chysanthemum. Bore is dark, shootable, would probably look better with a good cleaning. Japanese characters painted on the butt. Interesting, unmessed with rifle.
Click to expand...

Have you had the chance to shoot the old girl, if so, how does she group?
 
I have never fired it. I consider it to be a rather rare collector's item, rather than a shooter.
 
Yikes guys... the lack of Japanese rifle experience in Canada is evident in this thread, sad to say. Let me debunk some myths:

1) EVERY rifle Japan produced marked "Type 99" was safe to shoot when it was made. Period. Even in 1945.
2) Not Type 99 ever had a cast receiver. The Japanese Special Naval Rifle (usually marked with an anchor instead of a chrysanthemum) had a cast receiver and should not be fired, though not for the reasons you imagine. It is safe in theory because the bolt locks into the barrel like on a Remington 710, not the receiver, but they are rare enough that their value should preclude trying to fire one.
3) The legend of the blowing-up Arisaka is due to, primarily, US soldiers who could not read Japanese firing live ammo in training rifles intended to fire blanks only. PO Ackley and Julian Hatcher experimented with Type 38 and Type 99 actions. They filled cases with Unique and used oversized projectiles. No test rifles blew up. Virtually every other rifle design grenaded under the same treatment - FACT - the Arisaka is one of the strongest rifle actions ever devised.
4) There is not such thing as a "last ditch rifle". This is an American gunshow tale term. The roughly finished Type 99 rifles were actually called "Substitute Standard Type 99 Rifles" and were similar in concept to the Kriegsmodell K98k. Cosmetic finishes were dropped and non-critical parts were stamped and welded to simplify manufacture. Every one of them was proof fired to Japanese specifications and made to be SAFE. No army in the world issues unsafe rifles to troops and the Japanese were no exception. They had faith in these rifles to fend off the Gai-Ji invasion they thought was coming and the rifles were made to see hard service.

Now the caveat - that last Arisaka to be proof fired and accepted into the Imperial Army was made in mid-1945. A LOT has happened since then, mostly by owners in the US. mis-matched rifles or rifles with condition issues need to be checked by a competent gunsmith before firing.

Anyone with an interest in WW2 Japanese rifles should buy Fred Honeycutt's "Military Rifles of Japan". It's the bible on these arms.
 
Claven2 said:
Yikes guys... the lack of Japanese rifle experience in Canada is evident in this thread, sad to say. Let me debunk some myths:

1) EVERY rifle Japan produced marked "Type 99" was safe to shoot when it was made. Period. Even in 1945.
2) Not Type 99 ever had a cast receiver. The Japanese Special Naval Rifle (usually marked with an anchor instead of a chrysanthemum) had a cast receiver and should not be fired, though not for the reasons you imagine. It is safe in theory because the bolt locks into the barrel like on a Remington 710, not the receiver, but they are rare enough that their value should preclude trying to fire one.
3) The legend of the blowing-up Arisaka is due to, primarily, US soldiers who could not read Japanese firing live ammo in training rifles intended to fire blanks only. PO Ackley and Julian Hatcher experimented with Type 38 and Type 99 actions. They filled cases with Unique and used oversized projectiles. No test rifles blew up. Virtually every other rifle design grenaded under the same treatment - FACT - the Arisaka is one of the strongest rifle actions ever devised.
4) There is not such thing as a "last ditch rifle". This is an American gunshow tale term. The roughly finished Type 99 rifles were actually called "Substitute Standard Type 99 Rifles" and were similar in concept to the Kriegsmodell K98k. Cosmetic finishes were dropped and non-critical parts were stamped and welded to simplify manufacture. Every one of them was proof fired to Japanese specifications and made to be SAFE. No army in the world issues unsafe rifles to troops and the Japanese were no exception. They had faith in these rifles to fend off the Gai-Ji invasion they thought was coming and the rifles were made to see hard service.

Now the caveat - that last Arisaka to be proof fired and accepted into the Imperial Army was made in mid-1945. A LOT has happened since then, mostly by owners in the US. mis-matched rifles or rifles with condition issues need to be checked by a competent gunsmith before firing.

Anyone with an interest in WW2 Japanese rifles should buy Fred Honeycutt's "Military Rifles of Japan". It's the bible on these arms.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight, Claven2. My only experience with these rifles is soley based on what I have read. And it has been hours and hours of time in front of the computer. The information I have ascertained was based mostly on American sites and forums. Hopefully, though, I will get some hands on time, when my rifle shows up from the US. Sorry, I should of stated that as "what I have read is"
 
The Arisaka is one brilliantly made rifle. I was impressed to see how easy it was to disassemble the bolt, looks like a mauser but not. The receiver is cylindrical, mounts into the stock into essentially two pillars (for the lack of a better word). The rifling is polygonal, brilliant in hot tropical weather, no grooves to get moisture collecting, not to mention chromed bores on the type 99.

Go with a type 99. as usual, make sure the serial numbers match on the bolt and rifle. Most will be missing the dust cover and cleaning rods, not to worry (you can get repro's). The bores are often described as worn or shot out, but they are polygonal, the type 99 one had chrome bores, a type 38 will not. Some late type 99s are not chromed but I have seen late 99's with a chrome bore.

Here is a link to decipher the markings, ht tp://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html
 
As a clarification, after about 1942 or so, the rifles never left the factories with dust cover or monopod, AA sights, etc. but are still fitted for them. The idea was they would be upgraded to full type 99 spec after Japan won the war. (sic).
 
I bought a Series 5 Nagoya Type 99 last summer at William's Arms. Metal, bore and wood all in VG condition. Mum ground, bolt mismatched , no cleaning rod or AA site. Just picked up my dies on weekend. Put together a few rounds of cast this afternoon. This is a nice looking well built rifle. Got a feeling it should shoot cast well. Cost was $ 350.00.
 
@ Claven 2:

I stand corrected, Sir.

Thank you.

I have only 2 Arisakas, the Type 38 (brilliant shooter) and a Siamese-contract original in 8x52 which is in utterly-horrid condition.

My remarks on small women and the 6.5 stand, however. I really think that the 7.7 would be a bit much punishment for a small woman who is just learning. We want her to have the best experience possible...... and the 6.5 is the quickest route toward that end...... and it has a lot more JAPANESE history behind it, too. It can be loaded down with 120-grain bullets and slightly-reduced loads to give a fair bit of power, good accuracy and almost-negligible recoil. These could go a long way toward improving the experience.

I regard the Arisaka as an interesting design. It is BASED ON the Mauser but with the action simplified insofar as manufacture is concerned. Captain Arisaka's modification of the Carcano safety, effectively turning it inside-out, was brilliant engineering to my way of thinking. If anything, the Arisaka action is an IMPROVED Mauser, one of the very few actions which honestly can be said to improve on Paul Mauser's original work.

Hope this helps.
 
I agree - were it not for persistent bias against Japanese weaponry, the Arisaka would be recognized for what it really is: the complete evolution of the 98 Mauser.
 
Thanks for the insight. Arisakas have always been on the sideline when acquiring historic/milsurp rifles. Now I have a reason to get one. So I take it that you must load your own ammo if you want to shoot it? I think I might need to get some more practice loading first before I a really look for one.

Claven2 said:
I agree - were it not for persistent bias against Japanese weaponry, the Arisaka would be recognized for what it really is: the complete evolution of the 98 Mauser.
Click to expand...

That is the way things go. It is like with automobiles. I always thought "why would buy that jap-crap car" But I bought one because it was a good price. and I kept it for 10 years because it would never breakdown. Then I crashed it.
 
The Arisaka is reported to be one of the STRONGEST actions for a bolt-action rifle. The Royal Navy bought thousands of the rifles and bayonets during World War I, when Japan was an ally.

The Chrysantehemum was usually defaced as a point of honour as it was the Emperor's ownership symbol. When the "mum" is instact it usually means that the rifle was captured. That adds a premium.
The original leather slings are rare. The dust cover and cleaning rod are often missing.

They are not as common in Canada as they are in the USA as we had few troops in the Far East.

When I fit the bayonet onto my Type 38 6.5 mm Arisaka rifle it is LONG! This gave a short person a long reach in a bayonet fight, and a tall person like me an incredibly long reach!
 
The First Special Service Force (your avatar) encounted the Arisakas, Nambus etc. on Kiska when they invaded in 1943. The Japanese had secretly left just before the invasion, but they left a lot of weapons and kit behind - as well as some booby-traps. You might want an Arisaka because of that connection. I picked up mine originally to go with my FSSF uniforms, original V-42 knife etc.
 
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