Interested in getting an antique pattern musket

hafetysazard

hafetysazard

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Northwestern Ontario
I am looking into getting myself an antique patterned musket. I got the chance to spend some time with a Brown Bess for a weekend of re-enacting I had volunteered for.

I am looking for something that would be accurate to the war 1812 time period, as well as something that could be suitable for some traditional musket hunting. The baker rifle is at the top of a very short list.

As someone who is very new to antique pattern muskets, and doesn't know heck of a lot about BNA history, I am asking if anyone can give me some suggestions of what to get, and where to get it. I would also appreciate any education or information anyone has about the War of 1812, and time period firearms.
 
decision, decision decision...???

The BrownBess is certainly a good choice as it covers a good chunk of the reenacting timeline for BNA.
If reenacting will be a main hobby of yours, and you intend to join a unit then the choice of firearm will be dictated by their history. If you plan to participate in reenactment as militia then you have choice of civilian/hunting muskets...I saw on Track of the Wolf, sitting fox and northstarwest sites a variety of possibilities...tradegun and others, ...in kit form you can also choose a caliber that is not historically correct but that would be better suited for hunting...i.e. 50cal, 58 cal rifled. but again buying a kit is not for everyone...Maybe you need more than one!!, a BrownBess and a Hawken!! for example...
Welcome
J
 
If you want some thing for 1812 period I would go for a india pattern bess or a french 1777

Both are very good muskets. I myself prefer the earlier style of bess astheres more drop to the butt stock allowing me to get a better sight picture.

I like Loyalist arms and their customer service,
you may want to send them a e-mail and ask about their muskets, I have one of their longlands and its far superior to my piedersoli bess in nearly every way.

I think it all comes down to you and what looks good to your eye though.

I built a old navy arms 1766 charleville kit that was 30 years old and Im really enjoying that musket.

If your looking strictly for a brown bess,

there is the piedersoli one which is the main gun on the reinactment lines,

its quite plain and usually priced far more then a high quality parts kit that would muck into a far superior arm,
infact in my opinion the only redeeming quality about the piedersoli bess is the walnut stock, after I finished mine it turned out well, I find their springs wimpy and the brass usually crappy and thin.
Plain and simple they are just waaay to over priced

The loyalist long land is my personal fav and its by far more historically accurate in design, and if you need the lock repaired and what not loyalist does repairs and have the best customer service I have ever had the pleasure to deal with.

The only negative I would point out about the loyalist arms is the stockwood is teak or rosewood...Yes very beautiful and strong but it can get bloody heavy.

Theres also a pile of custom builders and kits available and theres always used ones here and there.

So I guess it all boils down to how much do you want to spend?
and what features do you want in furniture,stock wood, caliber and lock.

I guess you also should take into consideration your persona if your reinacting.


Im going to warn ya though......Flintlock muskets are very addictive, and alot of challenge and fun to shoot!!


Cheers
 
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War of 1812...I just ordered the 1812 DVD set from Amazon...produced by the national film board, it cost me less than 20$ shipped...so I would suggest that for a start...also Pierre Berton also wrote a two book set on the 1812 war...a delight to read, probably available in any good used book store...also check Amazon.ca, they may have reprint and used copies.

I also had a relatively good experience with Loyalist (except for their prices in Cdn $ which do not reflect the current exchange rates with the US $...(!!??) ), my reservation with their products would be for the hunting apsect you are also interested in...I would favor an american made genuine barrel (not a seemless welded pipe)...I would also tend to go for a rifled bore versus the smooth bore commonly found in flintlock....that is why I suggested the option of buying two...one for blank firing at reenactment and one to do the job on the hunt!!

J
 
The Loyalist barrels are genuine barrels, as good as any.
I have shot mine more times then I can count as have many folk I know who own them, to my knoledge there have NEVER been a loyalist gun fail,

My longlands barell is nicely tapered from the breech and has a as origional wedding band at the breech area.

The barrels are not welded pipe stock "if I had a dollar for everytime I heard this" they are solid seamless steel barrels, they are tapered and nicely done.

They are fantastic production guns, with some of the most sparky locks out there.

Smoothbores are very versitile for hunting, use ball for large game, and load shot for fowl and other small game.

Remember smoothbores were used to take down every animal on this continent long before rifles became available.

I myself am waiting for my first American parts kit from sitting fox, They have many different designs for really great prices Ill post what I think of the parts when they arrive...

They may just what your looking for ??


I cant really endorse them in good faith until I can inspect it.

But the prices are right thats for shure....Check out their website.


Maybe if I remember after work I will post a couple pictures of British vs french military muskets so you can get a basic idea of the design differences..

Maybe Mr JacquesT could post a picture of one of his French fowlers aswell..
So you can get a idea of civillian arms of the period aswell.

Cheers
 
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"...The Baker rifle..." Only used by The Rifle Regiment. There's one reproduction. Vents are not drilled and it's a smooth bore(rifled barrels run $195Cdn), so it'll have to go to a smithy before you can shoot it. Not as expensive as one would think either(the sword bayonet is kind of pricey though. $140Cdn.). $589Cdn. Add the W's. .militaryheritage.com/baker.htm
Any reproduction of a Brown Bess I've seen runs around a grand. They work out of the box though. The examples from Military Heritage are not shooters. Vents aren't drilled. None of their flintlocks actually shoot out of the box. Lots less money though. $60 for the bayonet.
 
ok this is a example of a french military musket

007.jpg

005-1.jpg

003.jpg


Heres a 1766 charleville I built from that 30 year old kit I was telling you about.

Steel hardware "that I blued" smoothbore in 69 cal.
French military muskets have barrel bands that makes taking out the barrel very easy for cleaning.

Its a nice light musket that points well.
 
Ok and heres a example of the british kings pattern musket

001-2.jpg

1stmodlock.jpg

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This musket has really earned its keep with me.
77 cal transitional "steel rammer yet lacking trumpet entry pipe" longland bess
This lady was built from a loyalist kit in their specials section.

She has shot reliably in the rain and failed me in the sun:D
She shoots as good as I do, and when I do my part she is the most relyable bess I have yet to see "and shes a looker"


Now if we can get some folks to post picts of civi flintlocks you should have a well rounded basic idea of styles and designs at least.

Cheers
 
The only sight selling kits for the Baker rifle is the Gun Shoppe, for about $1,000.00. The Bakers sold by Loyalist Arms are from India, and they will give you a source of shootable barrel. Elsewhere on this site there is a item on one of an Indian Brown Bess, that blew up. The Pedersoli weapons that I have seen are nice. "Track of the Wolf"s archives show some Baker rifles.
The net has many Baker related sites, plug Baker into "dogpile.com".
For accuracy I am selling a Early Virigina flintlockm as I want a Whitworth.
Good luck/
 
sail32 said:
The only sight selling kits for the Baker rifle is the Gun Shoppe, for about $1,000.00. The Bakers sold by Loyalist Arms are from India, and they will give you a source of shootable barrel. Elsewhere on this site there is a item on one of an Indian Brown Bess, that blew up. The Pedersoli weapons that I have seen are nice. "Track of the Wolf"s archives show some Baker rifles.
The net has many Baker related sites, plug Baker into "dogpile.com".
For accuracy I am selling a Early Virigina flintlockm as I want a Whitworth.
Good luck/
Click to expand...


How about you ask loyalist about the quality of their Barrels!!:D

The Loyalist guns are just as safe as any musket, And in my opinion more so, as their over engineered.

There was a mystery gun that failed and the muzzleloading forum has a rather intensive and lenghty talk on it with all kinds of heresay, the entire musket was sent to a very relyable company for testing and the results stated VERY CLEARLY that the barrel was made from the same grade of steel as most guns!!
The full report is on the muzzleloading forum in -smoothbore-

The report puts to sleep the myth of poor steel used in the guns, that failure was thought to be bore obstruction.


This is not my partisan opinion but the scientific truth!! All other opinions are purly fear mongering and WRONG.

The report is there in black and white.

There have been Piedersoli besses that have failed at events with nothing more then powder in the barrel, and I know of 1 piedersoli 1777 that had its barrel bulge shooting little more then shot.

Dont believe the hype.....Just because you put a high price on a gremlin doesnt make it a hummer.

The piedersoli flintlocks are not even close to being as good as their cartridge arms.
I have yet to handle one of their locks that I liked " and the brass castings on the newer releases are closer to dismal then nice--
I have handeled more then a few"and unfortunately I have wasted my hard earned cast on one.

For the price of a piedersoli you can get a custom built gun, or 2 really relyable and tough Loyalist guns.

But speaking of loyalist guns, they are very good and the staff offer very good repairs and service should you ever need it.

Send them a email with all your questions they will answer them very honestly.
 
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Musketfire said:
How about you ask loyalist about the quality of their Barrels!!..........they are very good and the staff offer very good repairs and service should you ever need it. Send them a email with all your questions they will answer them very honestly.
Click to expand...

Blair & Linda have been nothing but extraordinary with all of my questions, parts requests....and oddball work I've got them to do over the years.

IMO, the guns coming out of the Loyalist shop are way above any other provider when looking at the quality/price relationship. As stated before, I own Pedersoli's, Parker Hale percussion Enfields, Armi-Sport and Loyalist guns. Aside from the PH Enfields (originals are hard to beat), the Loyalist guns are more durable (less prone to breakage) and more reliable than the equivalent "other" manufacturer(s).

And in the unlikely event you have a problem, you're backed by Loyalist's great customer service.
 
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