Interesting comparison tonight: 300 WSM and 303 British
- Thread starter Why not?
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powder burner
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- Alberta, Canada
Why would you shoot them at 5 yards? wouldnt 50 yards be a little more realistic?
eltorro said:
And thats why they still make rifles in 303???
You can use the 303, there is nothing wrong with it, but outperform 300 WSM lets be realistic !
Load both with the same 180 bullets, eg. Spire points since you can only get very few options, set the jugs at 100 metres and redo the test. Compare apples and apples not apples and oranges. Both with the same bullet and one with a higher velocity, especially one thats shoots flat.....
Used ballastics tips once with a 30-06, never again, it fragmented and caused way to much damage on the deer and obviously did not penetrate well. There are much better choices out there such as the accubond which will hold together better.
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Wrong Way
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I'm gonna state that the first jug blew apart, and the bullet fragments were in the carnage...not a mark on the second.
That said, I have personally shot a 12LB bowling ball with a 180 sirocco out of my .300 RUM at 50 yds.....unspectacular. Shot the same ball with a 240 JSP out of my .44 carbine......IMPRESSIVE.
Ryan
That said, I have personally shot a 12LB bowling ball with a 180 sirocco out of my .300 RUM at 50 yds.....unspectacular. Shot the same ball with a 240 JSP out of my .44 carbine......IMPRESSIVE.
Ryan
mylesrom said:
My point exactly. Look at the loads offered in the new "miracle" magnums.
Lots of Ballistic tips and soft jacketed bullets.
You NEED a premium bullet for the fast ones.
They say that the boat tail balistic tipped bullet would thake the best advantage of the long range capability of the new rounds. True.
But when it comes to penetration, they lack.
A "regular" construction bullet will penetrate deeper at 303 speeds.
Not to mention the chance of getting a small twin in the way of the "speedy"
If you shoot a deer with that same bullet that didn;t penetrate the second jug, I'd assume it will die instantly. A bear upclose in the shoulder///// and you'll come back to re-read this post. When you recover.
I'm not denigrating magnums, but even Roy W. was very particular with the combinations he used to take game.
Lets just say that a liitle education goes a long way when it comes to making an informed decision.
I'd like to know how a hollow point SMK would do on the jugs.
CAn you try? 100 yds please, for refference.
Quote Eltorro: A "regular" construction bullet will penetrate deeper at 303 speeds.
That is because they will also blow apart at magnum speeds, the bullet penetration chart shows that. Also at slow speeds around 2100 the expansion is less that it would be at higher speeds, depending on which bullet, some will not expand that much at all.
Quote Eltorro: If you shoot a deer with that same bullet that didn;t penetrate the second jug, I'd assume it will die instantly. A bear upclose in the shoulder///// and you'll come back to re-read this post. When you recover.
According to the post is was an nosler accubond bullet, so by your expertise these won't stop a bear??? But a cheap "regular" bullet will ??? I think that shooting something 5 yards away into "water" , doesn't prove a lot when hunting shots are taken further distances into flesh and bone.
I think this post is getting confused of comparing 2 different calibers, 303 and 300 WSM, instead of 2 "different" bullet types for penetration.
You can easily download a 300 WSM to a lower velocity for a different bullet type, even 303 velocities, but you can't load a 303 up to mag capacities or even with premium bullets.
Thats funny when I got my Whitetail last year with my 257 Weatherby mag, with 120 grains noslers, I got it on a going away angle, so it entered halfway up the ribcage and came out under his eye. Over two feet of pentetration......
I don't know if any of you watched the "Mythbuster episode]" when they were testing penetration in water to see if water will stop a bullet. They showed that water will disentigrate higher velocity bullets faster than low velocity. The 9mm pistol didn't blow the bullet apart, but the 50 cal BMG did and so did the 223 and the other highpowered rifles tested! So in a water test the 9mm pistol out shot the 50 cal for penetration .
Do you really think this is the same as shooting through bones and shoulders. Should the Canadian Military trade in the 50 cal sniper rifle for a 303 version or some other low velocity cartridge for penetrating armour and vehicles? Maybe thats why they opted for their replacement rifle in 338 Lapua from Prairie gun Works, congrats to them.... to supplement the 50 cal. I spent 22 years in the CF and seen the 50 cal in action on the range, impressive.
If you really want to compare penetration then shoot into Ballastic geletin which is fairly close to flesh. But if I ever go hunting for "milk jugs" I will be sure to take my 303's.
That is because they will also blow apart at magnum speeds, the bullet penetration chart shows that. Also at slow speeds around 2100 the expansion is less that it would be at higher speeds, depending on which bullet, some will not expand that much at all.
Quote Eltorro: If you shoot a deer with that same bullet that didn;t penetrate the second jug, I'd assume it will die instantly. A bear upclose in the shoulder///// and you'll come back to re-read this post. When you recover.
According to the post is was an nosler accubond bullet, so by your expertise these won't stop a bear??? But a cheap "regular" bullet will ??? I think that shooting something 5 yards away into "water" , doesn't prove a lot when hunting shots are taken further distances into flesh and bone.
I think this post is getting confused of comparing 2 different calibers, 303 and 300 WSM, instead of 2 "different" bullet types for penetration.
You can easily download a 300 WSM to a lower velocity for a different bullet type, even 303 velocities, but you can't load a 303 up to mag capacities or even with premium bullets.
Thats funny when I got my Whitetail last year with my 257 Weatherby mag, with 120 grains noslers, I got it on a going away angle, so it entered halfway up the ribcage and came out under his eye. Over two feet of pentetration......
I don't know if any of you watched the "Mythbuster episode]" when they were testing penetration in water to see if water will stop a bullet. They showed that water will disentigrate higher velocity bullets faster than low velocity. The 9mm pistol didn't blow the bullet apart, but the 50 cal BMG did and so did the 223 and the other highpowered rifles tested! So in a water test the 9mm pistol out shot the 50 cal for penetration .
Do you really think this is the same as shooting through bones and shoulders. Should the Canadian Military trade in the 50 cal sniper rifle for a 303 version or some other low velocity cartridge for penetrating armour and vehicles? Maybe thats why they opted for their replacement rifle in 338 Lapua from Prairie gun Works, congrats to them.... to supplement the 50 cal. I spent 22 years in the CF and seen the 50 cal in action on the range, impressive.
If you really want to compare penetration then shoot into Ballastic geletin which is fairly close to flesh. But if I ever go hunting for "milk jugs" I will be sure to take my 303's.
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There is no question that the 303 wiht heavy bullets penetrates like a son of a biatch.
There are no flies in the .303 as a hunting cartridge, it's really been limited by the rifles it is housed in. (SMLE for example)
A modern bolt action in .303 woud be as good an al around gun as a .30-06, for sure.
However, this test is flawed. If you are shooting a hard target (and water is a hard taget) at close range, use the proper bulet for the application.
There is no doubt that a *regular* heavy, slow bullet is going to do 'better' at close range than a *reguar* medium weight one at high velocity.
If you want to see a comparable example, try a 300 wiht a 200 gr X bullet compared to the 303 wiht a 215gr. Use a hard bulet at high velocity.
But of course, we are still somewhat flawed- The 300's are at thier best when the range is longer. I mean- that is the WHOLE POINT- of having a 30 cal bullet go faster.
The POINT of a 300 magnum is not to kil better at 200 yards than a 30-06-cause they don't- the point is to flatten trajectory PAST 300 yards, AND/OR use a HEAVIER bulet at higher velocities than a 30-06 can.
The whole cartridge/caliber concept has been completley skewed in the last several years, because of new bullets.
I will be the first to stand in ine and say that the .303, with a heavy bullet, will kill like crazy at moderate ranges. But that is not saying that it will outperform a 300 at modest ranges, because it won't. Yo wont see a difference.
There are no flies in the .303 as a hunting cartridge, it's really been limited by the rifles it is housed in. (SMLE for example)
A modern bolt action in .303 woud be as good an al around gun as a .30-06, for sure.
However, this test is flawed. If you are shooting a hard target (and water is a hard taget) at close range, use the proper bulet for the application.
There is no doubt that a *regular* heavy, slow bullet is going to do 'better' at close range than a *reguar* medium weight one at high velocity.
If you want to see a comparable example, try a 300 wiht a 200 gr X bullet compared to the 303 wiht a 215gr. Use a hard bulet at high velocity.
But of course, we are still somewhat flawed- The 300's are at thier best when the range is longer. I mean- that is the WHOLE POINT- of having a 30 cal bullet go faster.
The POINT of a 300 magnum is not to kil better at 200 yards than a 30-06-cause they don't- the point is to flatten trajectory PAST 300 yards, AND/OR use a HEAVIER bulet at higher velocities than a 30-06 can.
The whole cartridge/caliber concept has been completley skewed in the last several years, because of new bullets.
I will be the first to stand in ine and say that the .303, with a heavy bullet, will kill like crazy at moderate ranges. But that is not saying that it will outperform a 300 at modest ranges, because it won't. Yo wont see a difference.
Uh, guys, nobody ever claimed this was a performance test or a penetration test or bullet construction test or anything like that. He was shooting milk jugs for fun. He simply asked - how many milk jugs did the .300WSM penetrate?
Now I see who started it . . .
Now I see who started it . . .
mylesrom said:
Mythbusters? Please!!!!!!!!!!!
They run a show and make money, but that is about it.
I was watching them with my wife one evening and counted how many errors / false assumptions each of us discovered in one hour..... tons....
the 223 does the trick on a human.
Soft skinned , easy to demoralize and walking on only 2 legs, humans are easier to put down than pretty much any animal half its size.
Four legged creatures have an extra pair of walking limbs handy, tougher skin and (bears) bigger muscle formations to protect their front chest cavity.
And once startled.... not so easy to demoralize.
I never stated that Roy W. was wrong in his assumptions in all instaces.
When dealing with deer, speed makes up for a lot, but with a bear..... I would bet your heinie that the 303 is better than a 257 W.
If you must go as far as to compare bullet construction... Gatehouse sobered up and will probide you more info on that, as he has more experience with them.
I balanced all the (known to me) facts and I made good and equally bad decisions regarding bulle/caliber choice.
I reload now and my excuses have narrowed down a lot. The next one is on me.....
Quote Eltrorro" If you must go as far as to compare bullet construction... Gatehouse sobered up and will probide you more info on that, as he has more experience with them.
That is my whole point, its all about bullet contruction, compare apples against apples compare the same two types of bullets, in both calibers.
Anyways, Its an endless discussion of personal preference.
That is my whole point, its all about bullet contruction, compare apples against apples compare the same two types of bullets, in both calibers.
Anyways, Its an endless discussion of personal preference.
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Actually when I was living in the USA, I had picked up a box of Federal "high Energy" 303's. They are loaded with 180gr Trophy bonded bear claws. They were on sale for 14.00 bucks. They are rated at 2600 fps and 2700ft pounds. Not exactly low velocity. They don't make them anymore, nor can you get that bullet in 303 anymore for reloading. Wish I would have picked up about 5 boxes. They would make a great moose round for bush work !
Also for the 303, you can get the Light Magnum load from hornady at (303 British 150 SP 2,830 2,667 ) which helps it shoot a litter flatter, again not low velocity.
This puts it closer to the specs of the 308... now you are only limited by your iron sights, if you are still using them.
Also for the 303, you can get the Light Magnum load from hornady at (303 British 150 SP 2,830 2,667 ) which helps it shoot a litter flatter, again not low velocity.
This puts it closer to the specs of the 308... now you are only limited by your iron sights, if you are still using them.
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