Interesting experience at the range.

Eagleye

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So I am spending a morning at the range to sight in a couple of rifles.
I brought along my Marlin 1893 that Ron Smith rebored to 38-55 a year
or so ago.

I had developed a nice shooting load for this older lever gun, a 255 grain Jacketed
bullet, .377" diameter, Winchester cases, and a Federal 210, firing 28 grains of
Norma 200. [clocks at 1650 out of a 22" barrel]

I have shot this load a fair bit, and it groups about 1½ moa if I do my part. Never had any issues
whatsoever with it.

Some time ago, I acquired about 75 new Starline 38-55 cases. I noticed that they were a
bit lighter than the WW cases, and the brass thickness at the mouth of the case was about .003"
thinner than the WW cases. I loaded up 10 rounds of the same components in these cases.

But, between loading them and shooting them, about 6 months had gone by. I decided to
see if anything was different with the lighter brass. So, I proceeded to shoot away.

The first 3 shots worked perfectly, bullets were landing where they should, cases looked perfectly
normal. Let the rifle cool, and set up to shoot another group. First shot...good, second shot, I immediately
knew something was amiss. Harder recoil, louder, and when I open the action, clear evidence of gas
leakage around the primer. Then came the realization that part of the front of the case was missing.

On inspection, I also noted that there was a bright ring [like an incipient separation ring] around the case
just ahead of the web. Since I double and triple check powder charges when loading, I know this is not
the result of an overload. Something else is responsible.

I take the remaining 5 rounds home and disassemble them with an inertia puller, since I have no collet
for this bullet diameter. 4 came apart normally, but one was very difficult to pull, with many hard blows
required. On inspection, I find that the bullet had left some of it's jacket material on the inside of the case
neck, as if it had bonded to the case metal while sitting loaded.

I'm thinking that this is what happened to the round that tore the case...it was bonded to the brass case,
and did not release on firing.

On the positive side, no harm came to the rifle or shooter, and the piece of brass case must have left with the bullet,
since it was not in the throat or bore of the rifle when I cleaned it up. Borescope shows no damage at all.
Headspace is fine.

I welcome all comments, experiences, etc on this strange occurrence. Not blaming Starline here, just mentioning
the fact that these were brand new cases. Dave.
 
Wow! Attention to detail is important! Not shooting any more rounds and checking what you have in the remaining cases was a good idea! Glad your rifle and you were just fine!

I wonder what would cause the bullet jacket and brass to fuse so hard!? It just goes to show us that our brass isnt always built perfectly, and we need to be vigilent when loading.

I once got 200, 280 remington cases(winchester), and went through the whole process of uniforming them, only to still have issues.
With a near starting level load, I had some serious pressure signs show up! I packed up went home and inspected everything with a fine toothed comb. It turns out that 5 cases in the mix were 270 winchester cases (dimensionally) but head stamped as 280 Rem! It sure pays to stop,collect yourself, figure out the issue and not assume everything is just fine!

Thank you for sharing the experience Eageleye!
 
Cold soldering. It doesn't happen often and when it does usually just shows up as larger groups on stored ammo.

The best part about it is it gives me an perfect alibi for not cleaning necks. I'm not lazy, I'm cautious. ;)
 
Brass, copper, and similar metals are extremely 'grabby' and they tend to bond over a period. And it seems that the softer they are, the higher the tendancy to bond is (or at least the severity of the bonding).

I've often thought about the guys who talk about POI shifts or accuracy degradation from loaded ammunition that has sat for a while; turns out that most of these guys are the ones who use new brass, sonic cleaners, or the stainless pin methods for cleaning their brass. Yes, it's nice and shiny but I'm not sure that it's the best thing for ammumition that will go to storage. It's been my opinion for a long time now that a nice film of carbon inside the neck of fired brass is far preferable to raw brass contact with clean copper.

I expect that your incident is the result of clean, gummy material being pressed together, Eagleye. And unless that brass is super soft or has a bit of a different chemical makeup, I'd wager that the fired cases won't have the same problem if you leave that clean carbon on the surface of the neck I.D. Ha! 'Clean' carbon....:d There's something we don't hear much these days, huh?

Rooster
 
Cold soldering. It doesn't happen often and when it does usually just shows up as larger groups on stored ammo.

The best part about it is it gives me an perfect alibi for not cleaning necks. I'm not lazy, I'm cautious. ;)

Brass, copper, and similar metals are extremely 'grabby' and they tend to bond over a period. And it seems that the softer they are, the higher the tendancy to bond is (or at least the severity of the bonding).

I've often thought about the guys who talk about POI shifts or accuracy degradation from loaded ammunition that has sat for a while; turns out that most of these guys are the ones who use new brass, sonic cleaners, or the stainless pin methods for cleaning their brass. Yes, it's nice and shiny but I'm not sure that it's the best thing for ammumition that will go to storage. It's been my opinion for a long time now that a nice film of carbon inside the neck of fired brass is far preferable to raw brass contact with clean copper.

I expect that your incident is the result of clean, gummy material being pressed together, Eagleye. And unless that brass is super soft or has a bit of a different chemical makeup, I'd wager that the fired cases won't have the same problem if you leave that clean carbon on the surface of the neck I.D. Ha! 'Clean' carbon....:d There's something we don't hear much these days, huh?

Rooster

Dogleg....I agree with your thoughts exactly!!

Rooster. I believe you have also reinforced what I had already deduced. Some "cold soldering" has occurred in these rounds.
The brass was very shiny and the bullets were bright gilding metal. I'm for leaving that light carbon film in the necks as well. :)

Dave.
 
I have never seen this happen on anything other than some milsurp ammo I was breaking down for components. Surprisingly it was IVI 67 date 7.62x51.

Until now, I haven't been able to find out what it was caused by.

I've never had an issue with this in new or old hand loads because I lube the inside of the necks albeit very sparingly. The carbon residue mostly gets wiped off after the expander ball is withdrawn and IMHO this save wear and tear on this component and of course makes it easier to expand.

Makes a lot of sense to me. Eagleye, I would think that if you re anneal and clean your brass you will end up with the same pristine conditions again.
 
I took down some IVI .303 that tore the neck off but it was due to a bonding or sealing agent that was used. Looked a bit like JB weld.

Definitely a interesting phenomenon Eagleye and something for me to consider when making large batches for storage. I'm not really a stickler for bright clean brass however, I just like it clean.
 
is there anything that could be used to lube the inside of the neck to prevent this? I have heard about it before. I use a sonic cleaner when I full length size only. makes cases very clean. I wondered about this many times myself but never any evidence of it on my ammo.
 
EagleEye, thanks for sharing. No intent to highjack...

What 358 and Dogleg have stated have me thinking about my process, for slightly different reasons. I have a post on neck separation at the shoulder junction, post neck turning, and I am wondering if there is any possibility of this cold soldering concept may have been a consideration in the failure. ( I am confident that the source of the failure was ductile cases and to thin of neck, but would like to ask others if I could be introducing a situation for this to occur. I am wondering if the bullet took the neck with it exiting down the barrel)

I ultra sonic clean to remove residue from bumping back shoulders and use the white motor mica as neck lubricant prior to seating. The cases certainly aren't "new" in shine but are clean. Does anyone foresee any probabilities of cold soldering? I don't believe so but I am putting this out there to the much more experienced.

Hitzy, I was thinking the exact thing.

Regards
Ron
 
I wonder if moly coating bullets would prevent that?

I suspect it probably would. However, since I am not a big fan of Moly, it is not a solution
I would use.
From here in, I will sparingly lube the inside of the necks of these new brass cases
when I load them for the first time.

Dave.
 
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