Ahhh! Must have been asleep when I read that post.
Lapua brass is usually quite tough, in my experience. Dave.
Interesting pressure signs
- Thread starter Pantallica90
- Start date
Ahhh! Must have been asleep when I read that post.
Lapua brass is usually quite tough, in my experience. Dave.
If you're getting ejector marks your load
Is too hot and good and too hot. It wouldn't be the first rifle that
wouldn't take max book loads, and wouldn't be the first that shot best with the pressure redlined. It wouldn't be the first rifle that got a continuous diet of proof loads either.
Pressure varies from shot to shot, which would
Explain some Marking and others not. Just a guess, but shiny new brass is hard to see faint ejector marks on and you might have missed them.
Is too hot and good and too hot. It wouldn't be the first rifle that
wouldn't take max book loads, and wouldn't be the first that shot best with the pressure redlined. It wouldn't be the first rifle that got a continuous diet of proof loads either.
Pressure varies from shot to shot, which would
Explain some Marking and others not. Just a guess, but shiny new brass is hard to see faint ejector marks on and you might have missed them.
Yeah, and they don't blow up the guns.
Barsness had an article awhile ago where he had many tried and true handloads pressure tested most of those that produced decent speeds without traditional pressure signs were right up the in the proof load category. Depending on how you look at it either a lot of people are shooting dangerous loads or maybe a lot of people have been getting away with it so maybe it's not that dangerous.
Maybe
Measuring expansion just above the extractor groove will give you a idea of chamber pressure and how much pressure the case can withstand. (varies with brass hardness)
Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
"Lake City vs. Lapua — which brass is harder? And how about Remington vs. Winchester? Is the widely-held belief that Win brass is harder than Rem brass really true? To help settle these burning questions (raised in a Forum thread), Forum member Catshooter recently sampled the base hardness of four brands of .223/5.56 brass. He employed a very impressive tool for the task — a $2,500 Ames Hardness Gauge. Catshooter explained that his Ames Guage “is FAA certified and approved for testing aircraft engine parts — it does NOT get any better than that!”
TEST RESULTS
Using Rockwell hardness standards (.062″x100kg, Rockwell “B”), the brass measured as follows:
LC 2008 = 96
Lapua 223 Match = 86
Winchester 223 = 69
Remington “R-P” = 49"
"All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read" (Starting with reading the front part of your reloading manuals)
Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
"Lake City vs. Lapua — which brass is harder? And how about Remington vs. Winchester? Is the widely-held belief that Win brass is harder than Rem brass really true? To help settle these burning questions (raised in a Forum thread), Forum member Catshooter recently sampled the base hardness of four brands of .223/5.56 brass. He employed a very impressive tool for the task — a $2,500 Ames Hardness Gauge. Catshooter explained that his Ames Guage “is FAA certified and approved for testing aircraft engine parts — it does NOT get any better than that!”
TEST RESULTS
Using Rockwell hardness standards (.062″x100kg, Rockwell “B”), the brass measured as follows:
LC 2008 = 96
Lapua 223 Match = 86
Winchester 223 = 69
Remington “R-P” = 49"
"All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read" (Starting with reading the front part of your reloading manuals)
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Pantallica90
Member
- Location
- Westbank BC
Thanks for all the insight guys
Finally got around to reload some rounds and take a look at the brass in question. Everyone with a ejector mark is about 0.005 under book OAL which is 2.025. Could have had case lune residue on them prior to shooting but won't know now haha. Neck diameter is 0.003 for fired brass over loaded ammo. I'm noticing that once running the brass through the die is also leaving a ridge on the base of the neck; noticeable when running a finger nail over it.
Now I'm at the point where I'm wondering if it's the die that's leaving this mark or it's time to buy a neck turner. Either way I'll give it one more round at this load with proper brass OAL and see where it takes me.
Finally got around to reload some rounds and take a look at the brass in question. Everyone with a ejector mark is about 0.005 under book OAL which is 2.025. Could have had case lune residue on them prior to shooting but won't know now haha. Neck diameter is 0.003 for fired brass over loaded ammo. I'm noticing that once running the brass through the die is also leaving a ridge on the base of the neck; noticeable when running a finger nail over it.
Now I'm at the point where I'm wondering if it's the die that's leaving this mark or it's time to buy a neck turner. Either way I'll give it one more round at this load with proper brass OAL and see where it takes me.
2.025 is 10 thou under the maximum SAAMI length for your cartridge. Case length should not be your issue. Fired brass 0.003" over unfired is good. Nothing to worry about there. The ridge on the base of the neck is something to think about. If you had a formed these cases from different sized brass, or had done some neck turning, there would be chance you have the dreaded donut issue. But, with factory Lapua brass and only one firing on the brass, that is highly unlikely. It is also highly unlikely you need a neck turner. Yes, it could be just poor machining on the die. Or, the other thought is that you are not really running the die down as far on the case as you think. Is it a neck die or FL die? How are you measuring to see how much you are bumping the shoulder?
When I look at the Berger Quick Reference Sheet I do not see a 130 grain hybrid. Could you be using the 130 grain VLD Hunting? If so, it is 1.324" long. With your case at 2.025", and OAL at 2.800" that leaves .775" sticking out, and 0.549 sticking back into your case. With a neck of about 0.250" then the base of the bullet is about 0.300 back into the body of the case. My guess that is likely the reason for seeing pressure early, and if I recall you are at max depending on the source of the load data. What you need is someone with QuickLoad to do a run using your specifics for bullet, powder load, and seating depth...
I see todbartell is posting what looks like QL data. Perhaps you could PM him with your specifics...
If you just see the outline of the bolt face ejector the ejector might have raised sharp edges and just leaving a imprint mark.
This can be cured by polishing or stoning the edges of the ejector hole.
If you bumped/pushed the case shoulder back too far, then the base of the case has too much head clearance or air space between the bolt face and the rear of the case. This causes the rear of the case to slam into the bolt face and leave the imprint of the ejector hole when fired.
If the ejector mark is raised like a pimple it means the brass has flowed into the ejector from high pressure.
Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads
Looking at your primers and measuring the case above the extractor groove are "ball park" pressure signs. This is because primers and brands of cases can vary in hardness and design.How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
If your Lapua brass that is known for being one of the hardest cases in the base flowed into the ejector you do have a pressure problem.
Below case head swipes happen on over gassed semi-autos when the bolt rotates while the case is still clinging to the chamber walls.
I have had case head swipes with softer Federal brass with loads worked up with much harder military Lake City 5.56 brass.
I have also had factory loaded Federal .223/5.56 cases that had over sized primer pockets after the first firing.
Case-Head Swipe
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2011/4/12/case-head-swipe/
Below catshooter posted the information below in the reloading forum at Accurate Shooter. He later posted the results of Federal brass that was even softer than any brand of case posted below.
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
This can be cured by polishing or stoning the edges of the ejector hole.
If you bumped/pushed the case shoulder back too far, then the base of the case has too much head clearance or air space between the bolt face and the rear of the case. This causes the rear of the case to slam into the bolt face and leave the imprint of the ejector hole when fired.
If the ejector mark is raised like a pimple it means the brass has flowed into the ejector from high pressure.
Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/simple-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads
Looking at your primers and measuring the case above the extractor groove are "ball park" pressure signs. This is because primers and brands of cases can vary in hardness and design.How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
If your Lapua brass that is known for being one of the hardest cases in the base flowed into the ejector you do have a pressure problem.
Below case head swipes happen on over gassed semi-autos when the bolt rotates while the case is still clinging to the chamber walls.
I have had case head swipes with softer Federal brass with loads worked up with much harder military Lake City 5.56 brass.
I have also had factory loaded Federal .223/5.56 cases that had over sized primer pockets after the first firing.
Case-Head Swipe
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2011/4/12/case-head-swipe/
Below catshooter posted the information below in the reloading forum at Accurate Shooter. He later posted the results of Federal brass that was even softer than any brand of case posted below.
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
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Take a shotgun cleaning mop that fits inside the die snugly and polish the inside of the die with some light oil and J&B bore paste, automotive rubbing compound, etc. The ring you see may be a bur at the shoulder neck junction and polishing the die may remove the rough edge. I have had two new dies do this and the polishing fixed the problem.
If you have a off the shelf factory rifle neck turning can be a waste of time and money, Neck turning works best with custom rifles with tight neck chambers and bushing dies. When a bushing die reduces the neck diameter .005 or more you will induce neck runout and most factory chambers have larger neck diameters. I sort my brass with a Redding neck thickness gauge for uniformity for my factory rifles without neck turning and use standard Forster non-bushing full length dies. I have Remington .223 cases that have over .009 neck thickness variation and with Lapua brass you should not have this problem.
