Dogleg That's what happened at work, there were a number of people actively trying to get the bear off the person air horns, rocks hitting it with sticks and anything they could lay there hands on only thing that worked (and way too late) was a fire truck and a fire hose and the bear didn't go away very far. And off course not a firearm to be had on site. which is the norm on most sites.
Interesting take on response time. (Bear/human defence)
- Thread starter 'Boo
- Start date
- Location
- Richmond, BC
This is the best bear defense thread I've ever read, thanks for posting.
Now I wonder if some of those arguments could be used in self defense cases?
Now I wonder if some of those arguments could be used in self defense cases?
I agree 100%, I was just getting at not being fearful of sharing the woods with bears, give them the respect they command and you'll be fine.
That's the problem. The bear courses are for the employer's protection, they just don't want to get sued or get fines from WCB.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Injuries from black bears occur (off the top of my head, in no particular order) because:
A) the victim sees the bear but fails to recognize the behavioral danger signs of a predatory bear,
B) the victim is preconditioned to believe that black bears aren't dangerous,
C) the attack occurs rapidly in heavy cover, or in the dark, or for some other reason the victim has no time to react,
D) the victim doesn't drop food he's carrying, or is feeding the bear, or poor garbage management is practiced,
E) the victim runs from the bear,
F) the victim plays dead, or takes a submissive posture,
G) the victim shoots, but only wounds the bear without stopping it's forward progression,
H) the victim kills a protective female, and is subsequently attacked by second year cubs,
I) the victim surprises the bear . . . who was sleeping, or otherwise in condition white,
J) the victim is simply unaware of the bear,
K) the area is not recognized as bear country, particularly suburbs and agricultural areas,
L) the victim was teasing the bear.
A) the victim sees the bear but fails to recognize the behavioral danger signs of a predatory bear,
B) the victim is preconditioned to believe that black bears aren't dangerous,
C) the attack occurs rapidly in heavy cover, or in the dark, or for some other reason the victim has no time to react,
D) the victim doesn't drop food he's carrying, or is feeding the bear, or poor garbage management is practiced,
E) the victim runs from the bear,
F) the victim plays dead, or takes a submissive posture,
G) the victim shoots, but only wounds the bear without stopping it's forward progression,
H) the victim kills a protective female, and is subsequently attacked by second year cubs,
I) the victim surprises the bear . . . who was sleeping, or otherwise in condition white,
J) the victim is simply unaware of the bear,
K) the area is not recognized as bear country, particularly suburbs and agricultural areas,
L) the victim was teasing the bear.
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That's mostly true for non-predatory attacks, but when the attack is motivated by hunger it's a different story. Black Bears aren't generally predatory in Ontario, but as their population increases, their food supply decreases and so they turn to hunting more than foraging. Of the attacks I've read about recently, most of them seem more or less unprovoked. Then there's the scenario of a sow protecting her cubs. I've been in that situation twice and not had any trouble as I was far enough away that she didn't consider me a threat. Bears are ghostly in the woods, you can't always give them their space if you don't see or hear them until you're 15 feet away.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Great thread. Maybe has some holes in it, but all research does, and at least they're trying.
I took care of a bear attack victim once (young grizzly). He told me he saw 3 things. 1. The bear charging him. 2. The bear on top of him. 3. The bear's @ss as he was running away. He only bit once and bolted. He said he had zero time to duck, dodge, yell, pull a rifle, nothing......
All in all someone/something is looking out for you if you escape - kinda like being in an avalanche.
-J.
I took care of a bear attack victim once (young grizzly). He told me he saw 3 things. 1. The bear charging him. 2. The bear on top of him. 3. The bear's @ss as he was running away. He only bit once and bolted. He said he had zero time to duck, dodge, yell, pull a rifle, nothing......
All in all someone/something is looking out for you if you escape - kinda like being in an avalanche.
-J.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A semi-auto has no advantage for the initial snap shot, but should a follow-up shot be required, there is no risk of short stroking the action, provided full power ammunition is employed, and the shooter puts sufficient mass behind the gun to ensure reliable cycling.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
well we don't need 2 bear threads at the same time....
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'm inclined to point out the marksmanship problem in the essay. Its a problem, and is indicative of someone shooting too soon, shooting without a specific target, or someone not in control of their emotions. The bear can't hurt you if he can't touch you, so the reason to shoot is to stop the bear from touching you, in other words, you must stop the bear's forward progression. The pointy end of the bear comes towards you first, and a brain shot or a spine shot is the most effective. The brain is only the width of the bear's snout, and the spine is no wider. A chest shot will kill the bear . . . eventually, but may not stop it. Take control of your emotions, wait until the bear breaks 10 yards - 30' then carefully shoot him in the center of the head, behind the eyes and ahead of the ears. If he's moving towards you, the tendency is to shoot where he was, rather than where he is, but you should still hit the spine. This anchors him and gives you time to make a killing shot, either in the head or shoulder.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I agree with you fully, but man that'd be a ballsy move!!! I know you're right, but still, that's A LOT of composure!!!! Like those dudes that put a FMJ .458 between the eyes of a charging elephant.....
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
oh sure, blame it on the victim.
Victims are victims for a reason, address the reason, and you're not a victim. Knowledge is power.
Good advice but I would guess that over 90% of the members of this site have not had the "field time" required to gain that level of composure.
I know that while I feel very confident in judging black bears after living in close proximity to them for over 50 years I am less sure of myself around grizzlies. While I have had a few interactions with the later type I don't know enough about them to competently guess what is on their minds. (With that said the few interactions with the great bears I have had have ended with them being as eager as me to create separation between us.) When it come to polar bears I would need a 12 year old local kid to lead me around by the hand to keep me out of trouble.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The more time spent around bears, understand their behavior, the greater your comfort level becomes, but dangerous bear encounters will get your attention. Before the 30' barrier is broken, the bear can change his mind and wander away, but he's usually committed once there. Once he's close, its much easier to keep your sights on target, as his body movement doesn't take him out of your sight picture, that's a huge benefit compared to longer ranges. This isn't hunting, and unless you just want to kill a bear, there's really no benefit to shooting early in a defensive scenario. The tendency at longer ranges is to shoot the gun dry, now the bear is pissed, and he's coming; then what do you do? The bottom line is, if a bear's behavior scares you, assuming you are knowledgeable, either leave the area if you can, or kill it.
With all these black bear attacks I'm surprised our papers aren't full of stories of bears killing people. Like two or three years ago there were stories about a man in Quebec who was killed by a bear. In an attempt to point out how dangerous bears are, one newspaper article pointed out that this was the second person killed by a bear in Quebec in the last twenty years!
I don't think there has been a person killed by a black bear in BC for the last, maybe three years. At that time a woman tree planter, I think it was, was killed by a black bear, in what was described as a predatory attack, where the bear stalks the person, taking its time, to make sure it is safe for the bear to have a feast.
And, in spite of what you read on the inter-net, black bears do not defend their cubs. Two different times I have encountered a sow black with once two and the other time three cubs. In both cases I made a charge at the group and in both cases the cubs ran up a tree and the sow stood back a safe distance and just watched.
I once knew a family that lived in the bush on a homestead. The dad told me that every fall for twenty years he had shot a spring black bear cub, for the fat on it. He said there was never once that he had to shoot the mother bear! He said, "Oh, they would stomp around and snap their teeth, but I just paid no attention to them, and they never even came close to attacking."
I have never, ever, heard or read of even one genuine case of a black bear that was wounded, attacking a person. When a bear is wounded with a hit from a bullet, it takes off in the direction it is pointed, when it was hit. If this direction is somewhat in the direction of the shooter, they will claim to high heaven that the bear was attacking, but in reality, the bear didn't know where the shot came from and were just trying to get away.
I once stood up on a pile of waste material from a logging operation, about six feet above the ground. I saw a bear, took an off hand shot at it and made a poor hit. The bear made a mad dash in my direction and crawled into the brush I was standing on! I got down moved some brush to see the bear, then finished it off.
So, if anyone can send me a link to a genuine news media event of a wounded black bear attacking the shooter, I will eat crow, with pie in my face!
I don't think there has been a person killed by a black bear in BC for the last, maybe three years. At that time a woman tree planter, I think it was, was killed by a black bear, in what was described as a predatory attack, where the bear stalks the person, taking its time, to make sure it is safe for the bear to have a feast.
And, in spite of what you read on the inter-net, black bears do not defend their cubs. Two different times I have encountered a sow black with once two and the other time three cubs. In both cases I made a charge at the group and in both cases the cubs ran up a tree and the sow stood back a safe distance and just watched.
I once knew a family that lived in the bush on a homestead. The dad told me that every fall for twenty years he had shot a spring black bear cub, for the fat on it. He said there was never once that he had to shoot the mother bear! He said, "Oh, they would stomp around and snap their teeth, but I just paid no attention to them, and they never even came close to attacking."
I have never, ever, heard or read of even one genuine case of a black bear that was wounded, attacking a person. When a bear is wounded with a hit from a bullet, it takes off in the direction it is pointed, when it was hit. If this direction is somewhat in the direction of the shooter, they will claim to high heaven that the bear was attacking, but in reality, the bear didn't know where the shot came from and were just trying to get away.
I once stood up on a pile of waste material from a logging operation, about six feet above the ground. I saw a bear, took an off hand shot at it and made a poor hit. The bear made a mad dash in my direction and crawled into the brush I was standing on! I got down moved some brush to see the bear, then finished it off.
So, if anyone can send me a link to a genuine news media event of a wounded black bear attacking the shooter, I will eat crow, with pie in my face!
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
spent a few years in the woods working in forestry.
only ever had to shoot one agressive bear, as I saw a lot of bear.
most times you could just scare the bears off with agressive body language and throwing rocks and sticks. Sow with cubs will chase her cubs up a tree and then hang around the bottom of the tree.
never found bear bangers to be very effective.
bear I did shoot was in the back of my truck licking the jerrycans, chased it off only to have it come back and charge at me.. twice. The third charge was the last.
bears will avoid you most of the time unless you do something stupid.
only ever had to shoot one agressive bear, as I saw a lot of bear.
most times you could just scare the bears off with agressive body language and throwing rocks and sticks. Sow with cubs will chase her cubs up a tree and then hang around the bottom of the tree.
never found bear bangers to be very effective.
bear I did shoot was in the back of my truck licking the jerrycans, chased it off only to have it come back and charge at me.. twice. The third charge was the last.
bears will avoid you most of the time unless you do something stupid.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Your insight is really valuable.....Prairie kids don't get a lot of bear time.....only gophers.
So what you're saying is that every bear attacxk in every circumstance is 100% preventable? What happens when you're in thick cover and a bear that has been conditioned by human contact decides you are food and takes a run at you without giving you any warning. He just appears, already going full throttle? Is this preventable? Should one walk with rifle at full ready condition at all times, every time?
People can definitely improve their odds by using their heads and paying attention, but to say that every bear attack is preventable may not be completely accurate. Wrong place - wrong time - wrong bear, you can do everything right and still get et by a bar.
