Interesting test at the range. RE: Match cases

oldrodder said:
The CFO has mandated that the club install "baffles" to prevent overshooting the berm and ground strikes. The executive want to see some degree of proficiency to avoid unnecessary damage to the baffles. I will post pics later this week.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I had guessed that they wanted to keep the riffraff from clogging up that range with 100 yard SKS blasting. So it's not "become a good shooter so you can enjoy the 400y range," it's "don't shoot the darn baffles!" LOL! It makes sense to some degree. But if people are in the habit of launch rounds into the sky, I wouldn't want them as members in the first place...

We have a 600 yard range and no baffles. But the nearest structures downrange are 10km away. Pretty decent range safety area. I shot at the 600y range on my first visit to the range after getting my gate fob. Now we have permanently mounted steel gongs at 300, 400, 500, and 600. I like it. :)
 

Nothing groundbreaking in this video but it does show that weighing cases is useless.

As lots of people mentioned, you’d have to work up a load for every brand of case then compare. You could measure the internal capacity using water then use Quickload to make rough adjustments to powder charge weight. Unfortunately the water capacity test is fairly inaccurate.

Then theres the fact that different brass might perform differently in other chambers.
 
coleman1495 said:
...

Nothing groundbreaking in this video but it does show that weighing cases is useless.

As lots of people mentioned, you’d have to work up a load for every brand of case then compare. You could measure the internal capacity using water then use Quickload to make rough adjustments to powder charge weight. Unfortunately the water capacity test is fairly inaccurate.

Then theres the fact that different brass might perform differently in other chambers.
Click to expand...

So tell us how you segregate, sort or prepare cases for most accuracy, since the two common methods above appear to be inadequate for you.
 
Potashminer said:
So tell us how you segregate, sort or prepare cases for most accuracy, since the two common methods above appear to be inadequate for you.
Click to expand...

They are inadequate for anyone not just me. Theres lots of tests showing the futility of case sorting by weight.

I simply use cases of the same head stamp and skip the sorting. Buy quality brass like Lapua, ADG, Norma, Alpha etc and forget sorting.
 
coleman1495 said:
They are inadequate for anyone not just me. Theres lots of tests showing the futility of case sorting by weight.

I simply use cases of the same head stamp and skip the sorting. Buy quality brass like Lapua, ADG, Norma, Alpha etc and forget sorting.
Click to expand...

Why is the water capacity test inaccurate? It's repeatable, I think. I've measured the same case 3x (after allowing it to dry) and had the same number every time.
 
rifleman762 said:
Why is the water capacity test inaccurate? It's repeatable, I think. I've measured the same case 3x (after allowing it to dry) and had the same number every time.
Click to expand...

Getting a consistent meniscus is very difficult. The slightest difference in the meniscus is huge. If the meniscus goes even slightly below the case mouth or forms a bubble it throws the measurement completely off.

When you say you get repeatable results, what amount of precision are you talking?
 
I wonder how Nosler is doing that to give a water capacity with their bullet seated in the various cartridges? - just like John Barsness reports in his writings. I do not think they are fussing with meniscus. There is a Barsness article or perhaps a piece in his hand loading book that describes how he does it - repeat as often as you need to, to satisfy yourself what your error might be - I have never read how Nosler does it.

I am sure that you understand that part of the price that you pay for those various premium brands you listed in Post #24, are because many of them are "pre-sorted" by the maker - through some process.
 
Last edited:
Potashminer said:
I wonder how Nosler is doing that to give a water capacity with their bullet seated in the various cartridges? - just like John Barsness reports in his writings. I do not think they are fussing with meniscus. There is a Barsness article or perhaps a piece in his hand loading book that describes how he does it - repeat as often as you need to, to satisfy yourself what your error might be - I have never read how Nosler does it.

I am sure that you understand that part of the price that you pay for those various premium brands you listed in Post #24, are because many of them are "pre-sorted" by the maker - through some process.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure if brass manufacturers do sort their brass by case volume, I don’t know anything about the process.

Unfortunately the case weight just doesn’t correlate to the internal volume. If I remember correctly the biggest factor in the case weight was the extractor slot. That obviously doesn’t change case capacity.

You could roughly measure different brands of brass using the water method, but sorting brass would be futile.
 
Maybe the testers don't use water for the capacity test
something like alcohol may be more accurate and easier to dry up after..

....now to compare meniscus'es
 
coleman1495 said:
Getting a consistent meniscus is very difficult. The slightest difference in the meniscus is huge. If the meniscus goes even slightly below the case mouth or forms a bubble it throws the measurement completely off.

When you say you get repeatable results, what amount of precision are you talking?
Click to expand...

Within 0.1 grains if I'm careful. It's pretty easy to eyeball the meniscus and get it flat across the case mouth. I also use some dish soap mixed in the water to greatly reduce the surface tension and thus the meniscus forming properties. My other trick is to make the meniscus bulge a bit and then touch a corner of a shop towel to the water to soak up a tiny bit. Sometimes takes a couple tries. One drop of water from my syringe is enough to go from below the case mouth to above.
 
rifleman762 said:
Within 0.1 grains if I'm careful. It's pretty easy to eyeball the meniscus and get it flat across the case mouth. I also use some dish soap mixed in the water to greatly reduce the surface tension and thus the meniscus forming properties. My other trick is to make the meniscus bulge a bit and then touch a corner of a shop towel to the water to soak up a tiny bit. Sometimes takes a couple tries. One drop of water from my syringe is enough to go from below the case mouth to above.
Click to expand...

Are you using DI water and are you using alcohol or acetone to dry between tests?
 
oldrodder said:
The CFO has mandated that the club install "baffles" to prevent overshooting the berm and ground strikes. The executive want to see some degree of proficiency to avoid unnecessary damage to the baffles. I will post pics later this week.
Click to expand...

We have baffles on our 100m range to prevent overshooting the berm, and it only takes a quick look at the baffles to realize that without the baffles , many rounds would pass over the berm. We actually had to do emergency repairs on the baffles last summer, because a section of the baffles were so shot up, it started to hang down, and pieces fell on the ground below. As sad as it is, many shooters are totally clueless.
 
I discovered this as well when I was first starting out with reloading. Different brass will often (not always) cause different poi’s. Here’s why: if you weigh the different brands of brass they will likely have different weights. Which causes the case capacity to be different, which causes the pressure to be different, which causes the burn rate to be different, blah blah blah. Match brass will have the same weight within the same brand and the same lot #, and therefore all of the above will be the same as well. Better quality all around, of which only a part of that better quality is the weight. Match brass is therefore easier to case prep, and you will have fewer, if any, culls.

If you buy ‘cheap brass’ then you have to weigh it, and cull the pieces that are outside of your parameters, and uniform flash holes, resize, check length, ya-di-ya. Being the cheapskate that I am I buy cheap brass, do what I just mentioned, and ‘weigh the odds.’ Over the years I’ve found which brands tend to be better, and avoid the ones I’ve found to be worse. PM me for my results on my fav’s.

When I have used ‘match’ brass, I can usually use all of the pieces, as opposed to having to cull up to 10 or 20% depending on brand, as well as on where I set my parameters within that lot that I’ve bought.

I have also tried measuring case capacity with water, but I mostly reloads for hunting ammo, so weighing my brass is ‘close enough’ for me. I consider sub-moa to be adequate for my shooting needs, and I have found that weighing my brass is sufficient to accomplish that end. If I can’t get sun moa, there’s usually something else wrong.
 
Last edited:
I have had no issues getting consistent and repeatable readings using water to measure capacity. If your eyes work I have no idea what problem you could be having with the meniscus or whatever.

Determining and entering case capacity will make a loading program much more accurate.
 
Our range is only 100 m and we have baffles. They have been shot hundreds of times. If you can’t hit the back stop you should have to have instruction. We had to refuse a group of people that carry firearms often as they were shooting the ship out or target butts and baffles.
 
a j cave said:
Our range is only 100 m and we have baffles. They have been shot hundreds of times. If you can’t hit the back stop you should have to have instruction. We had to refuse a group of people that carry firearms often as they were shooting the ship out or target butts and baffles.
Click to expand...

The last public range I was a member of had holes in the roof and supports of the structure over the benches. You can't stop stupid unfortunately.
 
Our 400 y range has a sign posted on the baffles - DO NOT PLACE TARGETS ON BAFFLES. If you look closely at the baffles a fella can see some pretty tight groups. :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom