Interesting thoughts on RAMP

[Waxy]

I am trying to understand. So why was this document not meant for public distribution written then?

I can only laugh.

Must be nice to be you, where the first draft and first take of everything you do is perfect, and no consultation or discussion with other people is ever required. Most people aren't that "awesome". They have to go through a process, of which writing things down in draft form and discussion with others are very important aspects, especially when most communication is not done in person, but through email and the internet. Pretty hard to communicate using those formats without writing anything down lol.

I can't make it any clearer for you than I have above, read it again, slowly, until you think you understand, and then read it a few more times to be sure.



Waxy

 

[sheephunter]

I can only laugh.

Must be nice to be you, where the first draft and first take of everything you do is perfect, and no consultation or discussion with other people is ever required. Most people aren't that "awesome". They have to go through a process, of which writing things down in draft form and discussion with others are very important aspects, especially when most communication is not done in person, but through email and the internet. Pretty hard to communicate using those formats without writing anything down lol.

I can't make it any clearer for you than I have above, read it again, slowly, until you think you understand, and then read it a few more times to be sure.



Waxy

So should I take your response as the official ARHJ position then? Strange, no where on the paper was draft written and it was sent to me in regards to my request for information on who the ARHJ was and what their position was.

 

[Moon]

Why on earth would I file a complaint with a third party....from what I see they have no stake in the ARHJ at all. Why do you keep trying to drag an unassociated party into this? When did they become the mediator for issues the ARHJ is having? My beef is with the contradicting messages and stances put out by the ARHJ and the existence of internal docments that contradict what it is that the ARHJ publically says they stand for. If the ARHJ takes these complaints seriously, why has no one answered my very simple questions. I don't see why a third party needs to be involved when it's the ARHJ I'm asking the questions of.

Do you speak for the ARHJ? Can you answer my questions?

Let’s get to the truth about paid hunting in Alberta. Let’s make the information public so that Alberta’s outdoorsmen can judge the veracity for themselves. I think you do not give the average hunter or angler enough credit. We are a pretty intelligent bunch.

How in the world is the AFGA an unassociated third party?

 

[Waxy]

So should I take your response as the official ARHJ position then? Strange, no where on the paper was draft written and it was sent to me in regards to my request for information on who the ARHJ was and what their position was.

LOL, now you're REALLY plumbing the depths!

It didn't have "draft" written on it? That's your angle!

Did it have "TOP SECRET" stamped on it in red ink?

This is getting more and more comical by the minute...

Waxy

 

[sheephunter]

Moon;2984323]Let’s get to the truth about paid hunting in Alberta. Let’s make the information public so that Alberta’s outdoorsmen can judge the veracity for themselves. I think you do not give the average hunter or angler enough credit. We are a pretty intelligent bunch.

I'm all for that and I think the average Alberta hunter is very intelligent and when presented with unbiased facts can make some very good decisions. I think the opposition to RAMP that Morton is facing right now bears that out.

You do seem to be avoiding my request for answers to my questions though. Is there someone else I should direct them to? Who actually speaks for the ARHJ?

 

[sheephunter]

LOL, now you're REALLY plumbing the depths!

It didn't have "draft" written on it? That's your angle!

Did it have "TOP SECRET" stamped on it in red ink?

This is getting more and more comical by the minute...

Waxy

So was your last post the official position of the ARHJ regarding the position paper that was sent to me? It's hard to know who is speaking for a faceless organization.......I'm just curious who it is?

 

[bubbasno1]

Sheephunter,

Thanks for forwarding the document to me. I have a question. Are you a member of ARHJ?

Bubba

 

[sheephunter]

Sheephunter,

Thanks for forwarding the document to me. I have a question. Are you a member of ARHJ?

Bubba

Good question....I actually inquired about membership and was informed that there was no formal membership.....I think the term used was a " loose association"

Are you now a membership based organization? How does one become a member? Are there meetings? A newsletter?

 

[Moon]

I am avoiding nothing. You want the truth, I want the truth and I certainly believe that Alberta's hunters and anglers want the truth.

Are you going to file a complaint with the AFGA? You have made some pretty serious claims and allegations and I promise you the entire truth in regard to paid hunting and the advancement of paid hunting in Alberta.

I am surprised that you, of all people, would be looking for the truth on the interweb. I'll give you a bit o a heads-up. When someone tells you they are reloading for a 270 Win and pushing a 130 grain NP behind 95 grains of H-4350, it would probably be a good idea to look it up in a reloading book first. That is the truth.

I'm all for that and I think the average Alberta hunter is very intelligent and when presented with unbiased facts can make some very good decisions. I think the opposition to RAMP that Morton is facing right now bears that out.

You do seem to be avoiding my request for answers to my questions though. Is there someone else I should direct them to? Who actually speaks for the ARHJ?

 

[bubbasno1]

Let me reword the question. Have you ever been involved in creating documents for ARHJ?

Bubba

 

[sheephunter]

I am avoiding nothing. You want the truth, I want the truth and I certainly believe that Alberta's hunters and anglers want the truth.

Are you going to file a complaint with the AFGA? You have made some pretty serious claims and allegations and I promise you the entire truth in regard to paid hunting and the advancement of paid hunting in Alberta.

I am surprised that you, of all people, would be looking for the truth on the interweb. I'll give you a bit o a heads-up. When someone tells you they are reloading for a 270 Win and pushing a 130 grain NP behind 95 grains of H-4350, it would probably be a good idea to look it up in a reloading book first. That is the truth.

I thought I went to the manual when I requested info from the ARHJ web site.....

I'm not looking for any inquiry or anything...just some clarification on some statements issed by the ARHJ. Can you point me in the direction of the ARHJ representative that can do that for me?

 

[sheephunter]

Let me reword the question. Have you ever been involved in creating documents for ARHJ?

Bubba

Nope

 

[Moon]

I thought I went to the manual when I requested info from the ARHJ web site.....

I'm not looking for any inquiry or anything...just some clarification on some statements issed by the ARHJ. Can you point me in the direction of the ARHJ representative that can do that for me?

You can have all the clarification you want. You can ask all your questions. You have been given a great opportunity to have everything you want and all this in a public setting open to public scrutiny. I am certain you can continue to embarass the heck out of the ARHJ... those bustards that would oppose paid hunting in Alberta.

Do I sense some reluctance?

 

[sjemac]

I don't think it's ARHJ that is getting embarrassed here.

 

[sheephunter]

You can have all the clarification you want. You can ask all your questions. You have been given a great opportunity to have everything you want and all this in a public setting open to public scrutiny. I am certain you can continue to embarass the heck out of the ARHJ... those bustards that would oppose paid hunting in Alberta.

Do I sense some reluctance?

Moon, apparently you and I are on a different planet...I'll make this very simple. I requested a postion paper from the ARHJ and was sent one. In it, were some very contradictory statements to the public statements being made by the ARHJ. I'm asking the ARHJ for clarification on those statements. There is nothing personal here and this is not an attempt to embarrass anyone. I'm quite simply looking for some answers that only the ARHJ can provide. This isn't the Spanish inquisition. It's quite simply a request for clarification on a position paper. If you can't provide that just say so and we can end this nonsense. I'm happy to let this thread die.

 

[Moon]

I've been doing some research for a project I'm working on and this was sent to me. While all of the facts are correct, I'm not sure if I buy into the conspiracy being suggested here but I'm sure many will. It does make for a thought-provoking read though.........




An Interesting Chronology of RAMP


Details of Open Spaces begin to leak out.



An ad hoc group called Alberta Resident Hunters for Justice is created by some members of the Executive of the Lethbridge Chapter of Pheasants Forever.



The ARHJ vehemently opposes Hunting for Habitat (HFH) but offers the Minister a suggestion on how to make the Recreational Access Management Plan (RAMP) more palatable by stating, “RAMP – built on the Montana Block Management Program. As was written in one of our ‘black documents’ it is not completely offensive. The Montana system seems to be reasonable in many respects. With a fully public consultative process and a reasonable timeframe for development we can see how a RAMP-like program could work in Alberta. At this time the process and precedent prevents us from supporting RAMP in its current form (not linked to habitat retention or creation) as part of OS.”



Morton pulls HFH off the table but in 2009 announces a new version of RAMP with a beefed up habitat component.



The Calgary chapter of Pheasants Forever offers 100% support of RAMP. It should be noted that while PF chapters are autonomous, the Calgary Chapter of PF has been asked to previously represent all PF groups in Alberta in key roles like a Board position on the ACA.

Sheephunter...

 

[canucklehead]

I'm going to need a Coles Notes version of this argument...

 

[MadDog]

I'm happy to let this thread die.

Why would you start the thread then, you knew what the outcome would be!

Your always bringing up rule 8, did you also see the "####disturber" rule?

 

[bubbasno1]

Nope

Thank you

 

[Moon]

Details of Open Spaces begin to leak out.

This point in your chronology really strikes me as interesting. I know there were a lot of allegations, speculation and suggestion early on that there might be a leak in the working group but I did not know that anyone had investigated the claims.

You state this is research for a project and maintain all of the facts are correct.

Who leaked the details?
When where the details leaked?
Who received the leaked details?