Interesting video about the Sten gun

Power Pill said:
I've heard this from a lot of people, but it doesn't make sense to me. If you threw a loaded sten into a room and it went off, would the sear not catch the bolt after the first initial hit on the ground and stop it from going off again?
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With an open bolt, fixed firing pin gun, the gun will fire continuously if the bolt is not caught by the sear. Disable the trigger mechanism, pull back the bolt, let it go, and the magazine will be emptied. Similarly, if the gun is loaded, bolt foreward, and the gun is jarred enough to move the bolt back far enough to pick up a round, but not far enough to engage the sear, the gun will fire one round.
With a Sten, if the sear is not under tension, it won't rise to engage the bolt. A broken tripping lever pawl could do this; so could a disengaged trigger/sear spring.
A dropped Sten with a defective or disabled trigger mechanism might dump its magazine, if dropped exactly the right way. The butt would have to hit the ground first, hard enough to move the bolt more than 2" to the rear. Pretty limited set of circumstances.
Now, stop and think about the sneaking up on the room full of Germans and chucking in a Sten. There is no way to guarantee it is going to fire. The is no way to guarantee it is going to inflict any casualties. Sneaking up to a room full of Germans would be a pretty stressfull, dangerous situation. So you are going to chuck in a loaded gun that might or might not have any effects? Rather than, say, a couple of hand grenades?
 
Power Pill said:
you must have a lot of nice tools in your garage :p
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I could use a lathe :)

Seriously. When I took my first weapons course as a gun plumber, we had to make firearms parts with only hand tools. We used forges, files, hammers and hand drills. You would be surprised what you can do with old school tech.
 
tiriaq said:
With an open bolt, fixed firing pin gun, the gun will fire continuously if the bolt is not caught by the sear. Disable the trigger mechanism, pull back the bolt, let it go, and the magazine will be emptied. Similarly, if the gun is loaded, bolt foreward, and the gun is jarred enough to move the bolt back far enough to pick up a round, but not far enough to engage the sear, the gun will fire one round.
With a Sten, if the sear is not under tension, it won't rise to engage the bolt. A broken tripping lever pawl could do this; so could a disengaged trigger/sear spring.
A dropped Sten with a defective or disabled trigger mechanism might dump its magazine, if dropped exactly the right way. The butt would have to hit the ground first, hard enough to move the bolt more than 2" to the rear. Pretty limited set of circumstances.
Now, stop and think about the sneaking up on the room full of Germans and chucking in a Sten. There is no way to guarantee it is going to fire. The is no way to guarantee it is going to inflict any casualties. Sneaking up to a room full of Germans would be a pretty stressfull, dangerous situation. So you are going to chuck in a loaded gun that might or might not have any effects? Rather than, say, a couple of hand grenades?
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I take most of these stories as urban ledgends. As noted, it would take an unusual set of circumstances to make it all work.
 
Power Pill said:
I've heard this from a lot of people, but it doesn't make sense to me. If you threw a loaded sten into a room and it went off, would the sear not catch the bolt after the first initial hit on the ground and stop it from going off again?
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The sear would have to be so severely worn that you would have killed yourself walking toward the room. If it worked, there would be a YouTube video. Possibly posthumous.

A car belonging to one of my mates shot itself with a Sterling. As he was getting out of the car the seatbelt pulled the cocking lever almost all the way back and then released it. Firing one round of course, the sear caught the bolt.
He got charged for that, even though the car did it.

There was a British Army training film where a guy jumps of the back of a lorry with a Sterling, safety off, muzzle down, and shoots himself once. Admittedly, it wasn't real, but the mechanical logic is correct.
 
Juster said:
There was a British Army training film where a guy jumps of the back of a lorry with a Sterling, safety off, muzzle down, and shoots himself once. Admittedly, it wasn't real, but the mechanical logic is correct.
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I seem to recall one soldier was killed in a similar incident during the FLQ crisis?

I wonder if the safety film predates or was a response to that accident?
 
chanman said:
I seem to recall one soldier was killed in a similar incident during the FLQ crisis?

I wonder if the safety film predates or was a response to that accident?
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The FLQ crisis pre-dates my military 'career', so perhaps. I expect there were enough Sten accidents to provide material, though.

I remember getting told off for cocking the Sterling with the tip of my little finger. Years later I found out why I this wasn't clever. The joy of the Army, "why" doesn't matter, just do what you are told, for your own good :).
 
Chap I worked with had a Sten bounce fire one shot. He had it slung on his back, and jumped down out of a rail car. When he hit the ground, one round was fired up and through his battledress, scaring the crap out of him, put doing no bodily harm.
The Mk. V cocking handle was intended to prevent this. If it was used.
I suspect one of the problems was open bolt operation, and lack of training and understanding of the implications.
 
Power Pill said:
I've heard this from a lot of people, but it doesn't make sense to me. If you threw a loaded sten into a room and it went off, would the sear not catch the bolt after the first initial hit on the ground and stop it from going off again?
Click to expand...

I wondered about that, maybe they did something to the trigger before hand? Would be nice to verify this from someone. The rumous of this being done is too many to think it's a myth, but maybe it is. Certainly was no myth at the barracks my father was in. It happened.

On another occation, he was shot in the hand while in his barracks making his bed when someone playing around with their Webley revolver went off.
 
JRW (QOR) said:
I wondered about that, maybe they did something to the trigger before hand? Would be nice to verify this from someone. The rumous of this being done is too many to think it's a myth, but maybe it is. Certainly was no myth at the barracks my father was in. It happened.

On another occation, he was shot in the hand while in his barracks making his bed when someone playing around with their Webley revolver went off.
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As far as the Sten in the barracks goes, is it possible that a soldier had been bxggering about with it? Either that, or it was defective? Just out of curiosity, where was this barracks where troops had firearms and ammunition?
 
JRW (QOR) said:
I wondered about that, maybe they did something to the trigger before hand?
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You could remove the sear (creating a sputter gun), lock the cocking lever into the slot as you approach the room, and release the bolt as you fling it around the corner. Wear a chicken suit so people will take you seriously.
When the Duke of Wellington was asked about throwing a Sten into the room, he famously replied "If you believe that, ...".

The place that built the Titanic used to make sputter guns. And Stenlings. I handled a couple of the, not that bad really. The guy behind me in City Hall swore the guy next to him in a pub was killed with a sputter gun.


OK Hilda, that's the sears out, throw all the Stens into the cafeteria, it is April 1st :
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tiriaq said:
As far as the Sten in the barracks goes, is it possible that a soldier had been bxggering about with it? Either that, or it was defective? Just out of curiosity, where was this barracks where troops had firearms and ammunition?
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Somewhere in the south coast of the UK, 1940 or 1941 is when he arrived. He hated the Sten after that. He would not put a mag in his when he transported messages by motorcycle. After Market Garden he was off to Holland. He spent a very cold 1944-45 winter in trenches and cold barns freezing and hungry. It put him in the hospital for the rest of the war.

Actually, when he first arrived on the Queen Mary he was stationed to guard the south coast from invasion. At that time they were issued a Webley and a pick-axe handle. Pill boxes had telephone poles painted black inserted to look like guns.

I gave up long ago trying to get more information about his tour, he didn't want to talk about it. If the experience was that bad, that's even more reason to share it.

Those who do not understand history tend to repeat it.
 
Juster said:
You could remove the sear (creating a sputter gun), lock the cocking lever into the slot as you approach the room, and release the bolt as you fling it around the corner. Wear a chicken suit so people will take you seriously.
When the Duke of Wellington was asked about throwing a Sten into the room, he famously replied "If you believe that, ...".

The place that built the Titanic used to make sputter guns. And Stenlings. I handled a couple of the, not that bad really. The guy behind me in City Hall swore the guy next to him in a pub was killed with a sputter gun.


OK Hilda, that's the sears out, throw all the Stens into the cafeteria, it is April 1st :
standard.jpg
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Question. If you tied the trigger back with wire or string, would that do it?

Keep in mind that in Italy Canadian troops would blast their way through buildings, right through the Germans, instead of going down the streets to be picked off. That's getting close and personal!
 
chanman said:
I seem to recall one soldier was killed in a similar incident during the FLQ crisis?

I wonder if the safety film predates or was a response to that accident?
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That is a true story. I was posted in Petawawa at the time this happened. I forget who the soldier was posted with. RCRs or Hussars? Or was it still Canadian Guards then?
Anyway. The guy jumped out of the back of the truck, the butt of the Sterling SMG hit the road and it went off. It was assumed that the bolt was forward on an empty chamber, safety was not engaged and the bolt knocked back far enough to pick up a round but not far enough to get picked up by the sear and off it went.
The military made a mod that we thought was bull. They introduced a stronger selector spring saying that the old spring may have been too weak, allowing the selector to flip off of safe. The new springs were painted red so that they were easy to identify. In the shop we could see no difference. We changed a few hundred and the unit armourers changed out all there own.
Standard proceedure at the time was that when carrying the SMG the safety had to be engaged
 
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Sure. If the selector is set on A, and the trigger tied back, pull back the cocking handle, and let 'er rip. Selector on R, tie the trigger back, pull back the bolt, and it cocks.

In the photo, it looks as if the tripping lever pawl pivot pins are being installed in Mk. I sears. Bet the two drill presses just behind were set up to drill the sear pivot hole, and the hole for the pawl pin. Next step would have been to braze the pin in place.
Don't know where that photo was taken. Obviously in one of the larger factories, not one of the little contractors' shops. Pretty big pile of sears there, but that could represent one day's production at BSA, Fazakerley or Lines Brothers.
 
JRW (QOR) said:
My father had the same experience, someone dropped a loaded sten in his barricks and it unloaded itself with everyone fleeing the room. However, it was also used to route out Germans in a building. No need to throw a granade, throw a sten into a room and watch the Germans scatter!
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This is complete and utter nonsense. I have owned several stens of different marks and there is no way that could happen. It is an old wives tale repeated by people too dumb to think of how it could possibly work.

If a sten would empty itself from being dropped the. It would do the same thing everytime the trigger was pulled.

All my stens have been rugged and reliable little SMGs. Doubly so when one considers they were built for less than $5 and are now all over 65 years old.
 
Brutus said:
While serving in the infantry at CFB Petawawa I had the great luck to fire a suppressed Mk II Sten gun courtesy of visiting US Special Forces troops.
The resulting report was much like a 22 LR, it seemed to my ears. The suppressor also made the muzzle rise even more mangaeable & small groupings of shots were possible with short bursts.
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The original Mk2S were pretty good for their time but have been overtaken by a long way by more modern designs. The Mk2S ran around 135 dB or so which is a bit less than a 22 Rimfire rifle at about 140 dB.

I got to try an original Mk2S and was a bit surprised how loud it was compared to my expectations of this mythical gun.
 
Suputin - keep in mind that the IIS used consumable muzzle wipes. Could that have been a factor? Do you know if anyone has made an exact replica of a IIS or Mk. 6 for research purposes? Apparently the Mk. 6 was pretty close to the Sterling in performance.
 
tiriaq said:
Suputin - keep in mind that the IIS used consumable muzzle wipes. Could that have been a factor? Do you know if anyone has made an exact replica of a IIS or Mk. 6 for research purposes? Apparently the Mk. 6 was pretty close to the Sterling in performance.
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The original cans used a leather wipe at the muzzle but I don't think it would have made that much difference. The design was excellent for its time but we have had 70 years of development since. We also used dedicated subsonic ammo now where they had to make do with porting down supersonic ammo.

The original cans were also not very durable and couldnt take any amount of full auto fire without collapsing the baffle stack.

One problem with trying to duplicate any WWII design is that they were continually developing and changing stuff so it is difficult to decide which variant to copy or if a particular variant was even an official production version.

I didn't get to see the guts of the can i shot so I am not even sure what variant it was although I could take a fairly educated guess based on the owners writings.
 
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