Interesting video from EES... Why my CZ457 builds are crazy accurate

did not seem overly great
he needs some wind flags so that he does not blame the somewhat poor groups at 100 on the wind that nobody can see in the video
average video at best
my thoughts anyway
 
Inch'ish at 100yds ... very typical performance of good shooting rimfires.

IMG_3062.jpg

And I even shot SK RM for this test (Yes, that is a flyer in the lower right target). Difference is, my rifle is dirt cheap and using the factory barrel....

Rimfire is and will always be limited by the ammo. All the 'tech' in the world can only get to what the ammo will provide. He is one of the very few youtubers that does real world testing and is learning very quickly about what makes a rimfire tick. Unfortunately, he is now entering the world of 'more better'.. and loosing sight of where the limitations are.

I suspect that if that same barrel was now setup for a factory install and tested with the same lots of ammo... the results would not change. There are no shortage of CZ457s using the standard barrel install that shoot similarly.... but then it would be very hard to justify all the extra costs of a 'proper' install.

YMMV

Jerry
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3062.jpg
    IMG_3062.jpg
    90.1 KB · Views: 353
Last edited:
Not a great video. I would be really disappointed if I could not get one of my factory rifles to less than 1" at 100 for 5 shot group averages. I wouldn't be paying any extra money for a custom that only shot to that level.
 
It was something to watch while the rain falls today. Good to know he Cherry picks the best ones and sends the rest back. They are probably discounted because of him taking them apart.The new owner is informed about the rifles history, yes of course!!An Annie will outshoot his gun and probably cost less. Informative but not impressive. Thanks for posting Roc.
 
An Annie will likely outshoot it but probably not function well enough for the intended purpose which appears to be PRS.

I can't help but think that any 700 footprint action eliminates all the issues he discusses and would ultimately cost the same or less.
 
A few points to consider:

A gunsmith will fit the barrel to the dimensions of the action provided (don't care what manf of actions, they all vary to some degree even the mega dollar custom ones). If there is a dimension critical to a positive end result, then a gunsmith with proper measuring and machining 'hits' those numbers. Why sorting and returning actions is kind of odd. There ARE very important parts in any action... but he doesn't seem to mention them or check them.

If a shrink tight fit is critical to rimfire success, why are all the CZs, 10/22s, T1X's, etc out in the wild all shooting so well with just a drop in but properly manf barrel? I sincerely doubt any of these actions were measured and adjusted to some 'perfect' dimension.

why is there is no discussion on proper bedding? A poor fit there will screw up the best barreled action in the world.

These types of videos add alot of myth and vudoo to the shooting world.... I bet a bunch of gunsmiths got calls on how much 'shrink' they set up their builds for... with customers assuming there is some magic fit that will solve all ills.

If you really want to prove a technology, then the proper testing using a control and increasing sample size is necessary. This type of video may create a bunch of business but really doesn't move the understanding and sport along. And since there are no end of exceptions to these 'rules', really kind of pointless.

yes, it is one persons opinion and he is more then welcome to his. He was able to reach a positive result by following a path in set up... this I do not disagree, but implying that is the only (or best) path to the same result just means not a very big sample size in experimentation and testing.

What happens when his process doesn't create a great shooting rifle?

Jerry
 
Grantmac said:
An Annie will likely outshoot it but probably not function well enough for the intended purpose which appears to be PRS.

I can't help but think that any 700 footprint action eliminates all the issues he discusses and would ultimately cost the same or less.
Click to expand...

for my bolt, I run an Annie 54 clone... it runs plenty good for this game. I also compete with a 10/22 and mine have proven very reliable as well.

Unfortunately, many Rem 700 style rimfires can have functional issues which the CZ457 is less prone to. Mags are the weakest link in any repeater and some set ups need far more TLC then others.

For the PRS game, reliable functioning is my top priority and why I don't use a variety of systems.

Jerry
 
I have had great success with the dozen or so 10/22 builds with a frozen barrel and warmed receiver. Not saying a slip fit isn’t effective but I had such great luck with how I’ve assembled mine that I just stuck with that system. Ive read about barrel droop and figured snug was better. Tony Kidd was who I spoke with and recommended if not constantly switching barrels the cold barrel and warm receiver. I however would not be heating anything with a Map gas torch. Cerakoted receivers are also susceptible to damage being heated. Safe in an oven at 150 from my experience. I think it’s 200 degrees they cure Cerakote at. As far as an Annie not being suitable for PRS, seen lots that have placed in many CRPS and Outlaw matches.They make specific models for the sport now in many different configurations.Just my experience and opinion.
 
I put the shrink fit to the test... same barrel but 2 receivers. One was a shrink fit... the other with a slip fit... barrel shot the same

Having installed enough slip fit quality match barrels onto various actions, I haven't seen any negatives. Problems arise when lower quality barrels are massed produced and sold as 'match'. The Butler Creek barrels of many years ago are a prime example. They most certainly were not quality match barrels and shot no better then average factory pipes.... thus opening the door to alot of vudoo and myth around the accuracy of 10/22 even with a 'match' barrel.

There simply isn't enough energy in a 22LR to 'shake' up a rimfire action and barrel. If you look at how the headspace and case align, you will be quite surprised at the part that has the most affect on the outcome.

Proper bedding matters in all rifles, and especially in a 10/22 with that silly central action bolt. Often, this is not done well ... and problems ensue.

Hair dryer should be plenty to expand an alum 10/22 receiver to knock the barrel out. If not, things were installed WAY too tight and likely the receiver is bulged or overly stretched.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
I put the shrink fit to the test... same barrel but 2 receivers. One was a shrink fit... the other with a slip fit... barrel shot the same

Having installed enough slip fit quality match barrels onto various actions, I haven't seen any negatives. Problems arise when lower quality barrels are massed produced and sold as 'match'. The Butler Creek barrels of many years ago are a prime example. They most certainly were not quality match barrels and shot no better then average factory pipes.... thus opening the door to alot of vudoo and myth around the accuracy of 10/22 even with a 'match' barrel.

There simply isn't enough energy in a 22LR to 'shake' up a rimfire action and barrel. If you look at how the headspace and case align, you will be quite surprised at the part that has the most affect on the outcome.

Proper bedding matters in all rifles, and especially in a 10/22 with that silly central action bolt. Often, this is not done well ... and problems ensue.

Hair dryer should be plenty to expand an alum 10/22 receiver to knock the barrel out. If not, things were installed WAY too tight and likely the receiver is bulged or overly stretched.

Jerry[/QUOTE
Don’t really think I would consider that proving much. One barrel on two receivers is not conclusive. Many things in firearms can be built in different ways and yet still achieve the same end result. I only stated that it has worked for me with the ones I’ve assembled. Your methods work for you. Mine work for my application and all have been exceptionally accurate with quality ammo. Two different approaches achieving the same end result. Cheers Chris
Click to expand...
 
And that is the point... I am always looking for methods that can offer an improvement in performance. Something that is repeatable and predictable.

For me, any tuning process has to work over large sample sizes, with many users, over many platforms. No 'luck' involved.

If a process has a high 'exception' rate, then it really isn't a process at all.

Note that I have done the no shrink method over many rimfires over the years... I am only citing my most recent 10/22 adventure to highlight the point. so I have a history of testing the technique. (both methods actually) You have done the shrink method over several rifles and have had good success.

since we are doing 2 different methods of install, with positive end result, neither method is the root cause of the success. That is not the rate limiting step.

How I wade through so much of the myths and vudoo over these last 20+ yrs. There are steps, techniques and process that are positive... always positive and using the opposite, leads to a less favorable outcome. This is likely a process worth holding onto.

Something that depends on whim, luck, opinion, or a guess... really doesn't amount to much.

I look for Black Swans...and in shooting culture, there are many to find.

Jerry

PS so what is the point? Any decent rimfire action with a barrel fit so it is held firmly whether by shrink or manual means, will allow the barrel to work properly... so newbies don't need to get worked up about 'tight' vs 'super tight' vs 'whatever else someone dreams up'. There simply isn't enough recoil energy to move the bits around.

Bedding will play a larger role.. just like it does in centerfire rifles.
 
Last edited:
Mystic Precision said:
And that is the point... I am always looking for methods that can offer an improvement in performance. Something that is repeatable and predictable.

For me, any tuning process has to work over large sample sizes, with many users, over many platforms. No 'luck' involved.

If a process has a high 'exception' rate, then it really isn't a process at all.

Note that I have done the no shrink method over many rimfires over the years... I am only citing my most recent 10/22 adventure to highlight the point. so I have a history of testing the technique. (both methods actually) You have done the shrink method over several rifles and have had good success.

since we are doing 2 different methods of install, with positive end result, neither method is the root cause of the success. That is not the rate limiting step.

How I wade through so much of the myths and vudoo over these last 20+ yrs. There are steps, techniques and process that are positive... always positive and using the opposite, leads to a less favorable outcome. This is likely a process worth holding onto.

Something that depends on whim, luck, opinion, or a guess... really doesn't amount to much.

I look for Black Swans...and in shooting culture, there are many to find.

Jerry

PS so what is the point? Any decent rimfire action with a barrel fit so it is held firmly whether by shrink or manual means, will allow the barrel to work properly... so newbies don't need to get worked up about 'tight' vs 'super tight' vs 'whatever else someone dreams up'. There simply isn't enough recoil energy to move the bits around.

Bedding will play a larger role.. just like it does in centerfire rifles.
Click to expand...

I didn’t DREAM anything up! I simply mentioned a method that’s worked for me. I don’t think a dozen plus rifles all shooting extremely accurate has anything to do with luck. I didn’t say the slip fit doesn’t work. Merely mentioned it was suggested by Tony Kidd a method which I tried and had great success. Pretty sure he knows a lot more about gunsmithing than anyone posting on this forum.
Whatever your referring to about whims,luck ,opinion or guesses really not amounting to much, I really don’t see the link with different methods of installing a barrel. Black swans I refer too as thinking outside the box. Just because someone does something different than my method doesn’t mean it’s wrong, just different. If the bullets go in the same hole it’s all good. Relax I’m on your side
 
All good...for the 10/22 barrel install options we have slip, shrink, threaded w and w/o barrel nut.... options of V block....and whatever else someone eventually dreams up.

Can't say one process has had an overwhelming improvement in the end results so far.

I think bedding.. or a lack thereof (or poorly done).. has a larger impact on the results. But like any other rifle, it is a system and all important steps need to be taken.

Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom