Invector + chokes, Diamond vs Diana vs Midas?

3macs1 said:
I only have one issue with the extended chokes is that I keep checking them for tightness :( but they work better for me than looking for a wrench
Cheers
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I constantly check mine out of habit but grease or heavy oil will usually keep them from coming loose even when they are only finger tight. I just pull them out at the end of a days shooting and re grease them when I grease the action.
 
stubblejumper said:
I had never tried Muller, until I purchased a used Blaser that came with some stainless Muller chokes. They pattern very well, and build less wad fouling than most other chokes, but what I noticed most, if that tightened by hand, they never come loose, yet they are easily removed by hand. They are expensive, but they are an excellent product.
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I have around 5000 rounds through my set of Muller Feather weight's since I got them and have never cleaned them, nor do they need it because there's no plastic in them and I can't say that for all the other tubes I've tried. Supposedly the reason for that is because the Featherweight tubes are made of aluminum coated with ceramic, or infused in Muller's words. They also weigh half as much as steel tubes, that may be desirable for some but if not then they offer steel tubes that weight the same as others, I have a heavy gun and I wanted light weight tubes so the Featherweight's work for me.
 
Falconflyer said:
I have around 5000 rounds through my set of Muller Feather weight's since I got them and have never cleaned them, nor do they need it because there's no plastic in them and I can't say that for all the other tubes I've tried. Supposedly the reason for that is because the Featherweight tubes are made of aluminum coated with ceramic, or infused in Muller's words. They also weigh half as much as steel tubes, that may be desirable for some but if not then they offer steel tubes that weight the same as others, I have a heavy gun and I wanted light weight tubes so the Featherweight's work for me.
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My F-3 balances nicely with the heavier chokes, with all of the barrel and stock weights removed.
 
Falconflyer said:
But of course you realize that patterns have nothing to do with shooting ability.
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No, I was preparing for the “ extended chokes pattern so much better” reply. My point being pattern density, uniformity, whatever, is most likely not the reason for most people’s misses.
 
I'm not of the opinion that extended chokes necessarily pattern better but I do believe that longer chokes do the same thing as long forcing cones in that they cause less pellet deformation due to the shot column being squeezed down more slowly and a bit gentler than with short forcing cones and short choke tubes. Less deformed pellets in the shot column amounts to less flyers and more pellets inside the desired pattern and more pellets inside the desired pattern size results in better patterns.
I also agree that patterns are not the cause of most misses, I figured out long ago what the cause of that was..... :)
I do however think that more uniform patterns with no hot spots will give you a better chance at a break (or kill) and I'm not alone in this thinking.
 
Falconflyer said:
I'm not of the opinion that extended chokes necessarily pattern better but I do believe that longer chokes do the same thing as long forcing cones in that they cause less pellet deformation due to the shot column being squeezed down more slowly and a bit gentler than with short forcing cones and short choke tubes. Less deformed pellets in the shot column amounts to less flyers and more pellets inside the desired pattern and more pellets inside the desired pattern size results in better patterns.
I also agree that patterns are not the cause of most misses, I figured out long ago what the cause of that was..... :)
I do however think that more uniform patterns with no hot spots will give you a better chance at a break (or kill) and I'm not alone in this thinking.
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I agree with your last line as well. But I am not convinced all extended chokes always give better patterns. Like fishing lures, most aftermarket choke manufacturers sole purpose is to catch shooters with their wallets open. When shooters pattern their new chokes, they see what they want to see from the $100+ choke. Makes me wonder how we hit anything with the short little Invectors or Mobils.

I believe people spending money in the shooting sports is a good thing. But I have seen a lot of shooters through the years chasing an extra target or birds with money, it seldom works.
 
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Westward1 said:
I agree with your last line as well. But I am not convinced all extended chokes always give better patterns. Like fishing lures, most aftermarket choke manufacturers sole purpose is to catch shooters with their wallets open. When shooters pattern their new chokes, they see what they want to see from the $100+ choke. Makes me wonder how we hit anything with the short little Invectors or Mobils.

I believe people spending money in the shooting sports is a good thing. But I have seen a lot of shooters through the years chasing an extra target or birds with money, it seldom works.
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All depends what that extra target means to you
If you are a serious shooter in competitions that extra target is HUGE
Cheers
 
When I said longer chokes I didn't mean extended chokes, just longer chokes and if they happen to be extended chokes then so be it but the science is still the same, a longer more gentle constriction will produce less pellet deformation as long as the tube is finished nice and smooth inside.

I view choke tubes much like golf clubs. If Tiger Woods was given a set of Canadian Tire off the shelf golf clubs he would still beat the vast majority of his opponents but his fitted clubs that are tailored to him gain him the extra shots needed to be on top. Conversely, if you gave a set of tailored and fitted clubs to an amateur, they would still be an amateur. The clubs do not make the golfer just like the gun and chokes do not make the shooter. Having said that, sometimes it only takes one target to win your class.

I hear and read about shooters setting aside their factory choke tubes in favor of aftermarket tubes because they have measured the factory ones and found them a couple of thou off the diameter that they think they should be. This is a poorly thought out plan and some of those guys never went near a pattern board to see what the actual results were before condemning the factory tubes. And some of the guys who did pattern their guns only used one or two brands of low antimony shells without ever exploring what good ammo or other brands will do. The fact is that constriction is really just a guideline anyway because most shooters can't judge the distance within 5 yards to a flying target so having the correct choke in is not exact science.
I tend to go with more choke than what is really needed most of the time and only open up if the target is right in my face, even then I often just stick with tight chokes, maybe I'm just too lazy to change them.....
 
Falconflyer's post. #32 makes sense to me, agrees with my observations as well. I've had a few Perazzi trap guns , the original chokes were short and conical to the muzzle with no parallel section at the muzzle. Seems to work for them, their guns have won more important events including Olympics than anyone else's. The opposite side of the coin: some gun makers have provided barrels with gradual choke for the full length of the tube. They worked as well.
 
Westward1 said:
The serious shooters are rarely the ones trying to buy targets.
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YA OK. LOL. Must have changed in the last 15/20 years
Must be why they think they will do better with a K32, 80 or what ever expensive stick
Christ I would just like to have the money back I spent on VCR videos back in the day :( let alone guns etc
I am talking serious guys/gals here not world champions
Take care
 
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I bought Carlson mid/long range waterfowl pack for my intensity. I pattern tested from 20to40 yards with 10 maybe 12 types of 3" shell. As well as tested against the factory flush chokes and there was a very noticeable improvement on how even the pattern was thru most of the shells, with the extended chokes. Only tested 4 and 3 shot
 
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