Inventories of War: Soldiers Kit from 1066 to 2014

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/11006139/Inventories-of-war-soldiers-kit-from-1066-to-2014.html?frame=2994148

I figured the folks in here would be more interested in this slideshow than those in the Photo/Video Gallery forum. It shows various kits for English/British soldiers over the years, with some neat little touches.

Army-hastingS_2994153k.jpg

Huscarl in the Battle of Hastings in 1066

army-bosworth_2994163k.jpg

Yorkist man-at-arms at the Battle of Bosworth 1485

army-naseby_2994167k.jpg

New Model Army Musketeer at the Battle of Naseby 1645

army-waterloo_2994172k.jpg

Private at the Battle of Waterloo 1815

army-somme_2994148k.jpg

Soldier at the Battle of Somme in 1916

army-falklands_2994178k.jpg

Royal Marine Commando in the Falklands

There are others at the link above as well; 13 images in all. There are some really neat little touches, like every kit containing a spoon of some sort, as well as games (cards, dice, etc)
 
- are those tubes on the bandolier pre measured charges for the musket.

Yes, before they started using paper cartridges
 
I am thinking the first one is a bit inaccurate. The Huscarl at the battle of Hastings was a Saxon foot soldier, and would likely have carried a round (possibly lenticular) shield. The shield in the picture looks more like a Norman kite shield to me. There is apparently some evidence that the kite shield was making some inroads among the Saxons of the 11th century. But it was the Normans who were notable for using it, especially with their cavalry. And the Normans considered themselves neither English, nor British.

Looking at it more closely, the sword is also more consistent with the usual Norman design. The crosspiece on a Saxon sword tended to be short and curved, as opposed to the longer and straighter crosspiece on the Norman sword.
 
^ Saxon's likely didn't consider themselves English (Anglo's) or British anymore than the Normans. They certainly considered a large part of what we know as England as home though...and Harold their King. Land and resources, Land and resources, patriotism is for the laity.
 
It is generally accepted that it was under Alfred the Great that the notion of England (Angleland) was born. Ironically, it was under the Danish King, Cnut the Great, that the notion of a unified Kingdom of England came into it's own, as part of Cnut's North Sea Empire. In any case, by the time of the Norman invasion, whether their background was Angle, Saxon, or Jute, they all considered themselves part of the Kingdom of England, which by that time stretched from Northumbria all the way down to the English Channel. In other words, the part of the British Isles still considered to be "England" to this day. The language they spoke was called Ænglisc, Anglisc, or Englisc (depending on the dialect). So yeah, I think they considered themselves English. They certainly did not consider themselves Britons. In fact they called the Britons "Wælisc" which means "foreigner", or sometimes is used to mean "slave". This is where the word "Welsh" comes from.

In any case, I stand by my contention that the shield and sword in the first pic looks more Norman than Saxon. Though there is a Seax (the knife just under the sword) which was so named because it was particularly favoured among the Saxons.
 
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I'll agree with almost everything...including the shield. Where we differ is the contention of the language spoken. True enough that the English language is a bastardized amalgamation of many tongues, but the Angles and Saxons did not speak the same language though both are "Germanic". These two ethnic tribes had similar customs, religions, ect. but spoke different languages...not dialects of the same language. Prior to the Anglo/Saxon's, were the Briton's (Celts/Gauls) who had been living with (some would say an uneasy toleration at best) the Romans (Latin)...these two different languages have also been incorporated into English (the latter more so than the former)...then come the Vikings, with raid/trade and some settlement, and we realize yet another amalgamation of language/ customs into the "English" language.
The Johnny come lately's were the Normans (Frankish/Viking/Gaul mix...still any wonder why they came to England?:)). Eventually yes, all of the aforementioned became English, but in 1066 it still depended greatly where your people settled as to what language you spoke within Harold's England.

But I'll agree, the shield is of Norman design. Not Saxon.
 
Well, it seems I have effectively sidetracked the thread. :) Oh well .... in for a penny ...

It is true that at the time that Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Frisians began settling in the British Isles (late 5th and early 6th centuries) they spoke their own languages. But they were very closely related. So close that they could understand one another in much the same way that Danes and Norwegians can today. But be that as it may, in those earliest years, nobody talked about Anglo-Saxons. Apparently this nomenclature first appears (in writing at least) in the 8th century, and is itself indicative of the emergence of an ethnic identity among the various groups/kingdoms. No doubt in part because at that time there was an invasion of those pesky Danes (My ancestors :) ) happening which necessitated the making of alliances. So Alfred's Wessex made an alliance with Mercia, which gave Alfred the clout to conclude a peace treaty with Guthrum and the Danes who had settled in Northumbria and East Anglia (what came to be called the Danelaw). Alfred encouraged the development of an English identity in the non Danish region under his control, even encouraging that things be written down in English. This was somewhat unusual in a Christian Kingdom, as Latin was the language in which things were normally written. The English language and identity continued to emerge in subsequent centuries. Living in proximity to and trading with the Danish settlers and their descendants had a tangible influence on the ever changing language and culture. (If you you are a "husband" who has "skill" cutting "cake" with a "knife", you can thank a Dane. :) ) Alfred's descendants reconquered the Danish territories, and subdued the regional aspirations of the rest of the Anglo Saxon kingdoms, with all of them eventually came under the rule of King Edgar the first who reigned from 959 until 975. Then those pesky Danes came back under the King of Denmark Sweyn Forkbeard (1015), and after his death, under his son Cnut the Great (1016) when King Æthelred the Unready lost the whole of his kingdom to the Danes. Æthelred's kingdom had pretty much the same boundaries of what we consider England today (excluding of course Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland) and this is the Kingdom that Cnut conquered and ruled. However, Cnut did not impose the Danish language or laws in England. He was referred to as the King of Denmark, England, Norway, and parts of Sweden. The point being that he differentiated between his English kingdom, and his Scandinavian ones. He reigned until his death in 1035, after which the kingdom of England went through a period of upheaval over questions of succession. And one of those with a claim to the throne was William the Bastard, duke of Normandy. His claim was to the throne of all of England, and was based upon his assertion that his distant cousin Edward the Confessor (Who was king od England, and with whom William they shared Æthelred as a common ancestor) had promised it to him. Godwin, earl of Wessex, a powerful man during Cnut's reign who was a relative of Cnut's by marriage set the stage for his son, Harold Godwinson, to be crowned King of England. And this of course ticked William off, and the rest is history. But by the time of the Battle of Hastings, the Kingdom being contested was geographically the England we know, and was called England. The language spoken throughout the kingdom was called English. The regional dialects then, like today were quite different, but it was called English. The old kingdoms of Wessex, Northumbria, Kent, etc. were now earldoms within a larger England.

Here is an interesting series of youtubes if you are interested in such things. It is about the development of English as a language, but there is a good deal in it about the development of the English identity as well. Part three is where we get into Alfred and the Danes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UG6vHXArlk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3lV7_d7m-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuyEXotPRxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNZVSbQcpCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZcjkIXLZCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ5UUOtkAX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GH2rho-xo
 
the11 said:
Well, it seems I have effectively sidetracked the thread. :) Oh well .... in for a penny ...

It is true that at the time that Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Frisians began settling in the British Isles (late 5th and early 6th centuries) they spoke their own languages. But they were very closely related. So close that they could understand one another in much the same way that Danes and Norwegians can today. But be that as it may, in those earliest years, nobody talked about Anglo-Saxons. Apparently this nomenclature first appears (in writing at least) in the 8th century, and is itself indicative of the emergence of an ethnic identity among the various groups/kingdoms. No doubt in part because at that time there was an invasion of those pesky Danes (My ancestors :) ) happening which necessitated the making of alliances. So Alfred's Wessex made an alliance with Mercia, which gave Alfred the clout to conclude a peace treaty with Guthrum and the Danes who had settled in Northumbria and East Anglia (what came to be called the Danelaw). Alfred encouraged the development of an English identity in the non Danish region under his control, even encouraging that things be written down in English. This was somewhat unusual in a Christian Kingdom, as Latin was the language in which things were normally written. The English language and identity continued to emerge in subsequent centuries. Living in proximity to and trading with the Danish settlers and their descendants had a tangible influence on the ever changing language and culture. (If you you are a "husband" who has "skill" cutting "cake" with a "knife", you can thank a Dane. :) ) Alfred's descendants reconquered the Danish territories, and subdued the regional aspirations of the rest of the Anglo Saxon kingdoms, with all of them eventually came under the rule of King Edgar the first who reigned from 959 until 975. Then those pesky Danes came back under the King of Denmark Sweyn Forkbeard (1015), and after his death, under his son Cnut the Great (1016) when King Æthelred the Unready lost the whole of his kingdom to the Danes. Æthelred's kingdom had pretty much the same boundaries of what we consider England today (excluding of course Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland) and this is the Kingdom that Cnut conquered and ruled. However, Cnut did not impose the Danish language or laws in England. He was referred to as the King of Denmark, England, Norway, and parts of Sweden. The point being that he differentiated between his English kingdom, and his Scandinavian ones. He reigned until his death in 1035, after which the kingdom of England went through a period of upheaval over questions of succession. And one of those with a claim to the throne was William the Bastard, duke of Normandy. His claim was to the throne of all of England, and was based upon his assertion that his distant cousin Edward the Confessor (Who was king od England, and with whom William they shared Æthelred as a common ancestor) had promised it to him. Godwin, earl of Wessex, a powerful man during Cnut's reign who was a relative of Cnut's by marriage set the stage for his son, Harold Godwinson, to be crowned King of England. And this of course ticked William off, and the rest is history. But by the time of the Battle of Hastings, the Kingdom being contested was geographically the England we know, and was called England. The language spoken throughout the kingdom was called English. The regional dialects then, like today were quite different, but it was called English. The old kingdoms of Wessex, Northumbria, Kent, etc. were now earldoms within a larger England.

Here is an interesting series of youtubes if you are interested in such things. It is about the development of English as a language, but there is a good deal in it about the development of the English identity as well. Part three is where we get into Alfred and the Danes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UG6vHXArlk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3lV7_d7m-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuyEXotPRxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNZVSbQcpCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZcjkIXLZCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ5UUOtkAX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GH2rho-xo
Click to expand...

Thank you, I enjoyed that very much. :cheers:
 
For those interested, check this article in the MK along with 167 pic photo montage ... :)

Part of her Enfield rifle collection, my wife owns this these wonderful little pieces if history .... :thup:

It's amazing to see all of these individual items from the 1940's, stamped with government ownership military "broad arrow" markings, including the individual cigarettes stamped "HM Forces". :)

MKL entry - 1937 Pattern - WWII British Soldier's Haversack (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php...versack-(with-personal-kit-dated-from-1940-s)
(Packed with soldier's personal kit dated from the 1940's)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Click to expand...
 
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