IPSC 40SW recipe for major using clays

One thing I feel is useful to note - there are three types of Hodgdon Clays. The cautions regrading major loads in .40 are usually about "Clays".

If you're hearing about safe loads 'word of mouth' just confirm which exact powder is being used. "International Clays" and "Universal Clays" have different burn rates and are NOT interchangeable.
 
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I tried it and gave up on it. I got to 3.5gn with a 180gn bullet and still wasn't making major. I've heard too much negative press on here to try going over 3.5gn. Especially in my Glock. If I try anything else other than 231 it will be TG. I use a power check system on my dillon 650 so I'm not that worried about a double charge.
 
PeterPan said:
Rob
If you remember what was your OAL and how much you have loaded?
I have been loading for years, before 2006 was rifles only and if I will see any spikes or pressure signs loadin IC I will be first to stop.
I do not check what is the life of my brass usin than powder but they last.
Also, primers are fine after firing and no signs of higher pressure loads.
At the end all my firearms are fine, both Svi and Glock 22.
I load very carefully, every charge is visually inspected, lamp is attached to the loader to have better visual.
Myself I actually like IC betterthen TG and find it safe.
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1.220 if memory serves and forget the exact load but I know I started low. It was a long time ago and I can't locate that specific notebook. I think my wife might have "cleaned" it, or maybe I did. I do remember this: I had put about 6 rounds through the gun on my first tests with this powder and on the last one (7?) it blew. The entire case head vaporized and I had to pry what was left of the case out of the chamber. I picked up the spent cases and they were all severely bulged, looking like they had cancerous tumors growing out of them. Not cool.

Note also that you are using International Clays, not Clays. There is a huge difference between the two in terms of pressure. Putting 175-180 pf Clays loads through a Glock chamber is a recipe for.......well.....it's not advisable, put it that way. Fine in an ST/VI if loaded correctly.

Look; I'm not trying to slag anyone's loads here but we're dealing with explosives and propellants being ignited within a sealed pressure vessel in front of your face. Does anyone want to take the risk of pulling load data from from the magic internet and putting it straight into your gun without due ramp-up testing? Does anyone want to take the risk of suggesting such a load to a friend and then finding out they've been hurt? Each gun is different, each loading machine is different, each powder batch lot is different, and Clays is a flake powder so it won't even meter all that exactly. It costs nothing to be prudent but it can cost a lot to be cavalier.

Rant mode off.
 
relliott said:
Had it happen to me personally ok? I'm not talking out of my ass here. I won't say which gun but it had what was supposed to be a supported chamber but had been a little "over-tuned" at the factory and with a major load it blew. Brass and whatever other particulate matter blew down AND back through the slide rails into my face. Got a few nicks and my glasses saved my eyes. Magazine blew out the floorplate.

I'm not hyperventilating or screaming that the sky will fall; I'm telling the guy to be careful with a high pressure load. I think that is prudent under the circumstances. In your guns everything may work fine. In someone else's it may be dangerous is all I'm saying. Variances in case web thickness from manufacturer to manufacturer, metalurgy, number of firings, etc. These can all be factors for which a fully supported chamber will provide some cushion in the event of failure. .40 S&W major loadings Clays is way beyond saami spec. and people need to proceed with caution.
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The main point was that you said one will absolutely have separation....That's simply false....You can not use the term "absolutely"....And as I said earlier, a lot of such blowout's are the result of charging, and/or using brass beyond it's useable time....I`m pleased your OK, but just be careful in saying things in the way you worded it...

Also,
Clays is a flake powder so it won't even meter all that exactly
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Just what meter are you using?....Using my Dillon powder measure I have , again, never had a problem with Clays...And I check the powder charge every 500-600 rounds...As a matter of fact, I find the Dillon powder measures eeriely accurate....But why don't you mention the gun that went Ka-Boom?...It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings...

Plus, there is nothing magical about getting load data from the internet...Just go to a powder manufacturers site (like Hodgdon), and FOLLOW THE RULES....You always start with minimum charges and work your way up....You do that for ANY powder....
 
I have tried Clays and its great for underpowered loads, I would not use it to try and make major just too much pressure for me plus it does not meter well... :(

I use Bullseye for everything now (pistol), it's a no brainer, good for 45, 40 s&w, and 9mm, it's clean and cheap @ under $16 a lb... I load 5.1gr under a Zero 180gr bullet @ 1.190oal and it gives me 176pf on my chrono and 181 at the provincals this year so it's good to go...:)
 
Hi Guys,

Decided to try clays after speaking with someone shooting on my squad at the provincials. Originally was planning to switch to VV N320. Thought I could save some money and try Clays.

I didn't think it would have created all the buzz it's created.

I haven't chrono'd any rounds yet. I shot 100 rounds and they seem accurate enough and soft on recoil.

OAL is 1.21
4.0 gr of Clays
200 gr Campro.


I only bought 1 lb of Clays to try but I think I'll switch back to VV N320 like I had planned originally.

Thanks for the advice.
Richard
 
Airwolf said:
The main point was that you said one will absolutely have separation....That's simply false....You can not use the term "absolutely"....And as I said earlier, a lot of such blowout's are the result of charging, and/or using brass beyond it's useable time....I`m pleased your OK, but just be careful in saying things in the way you worded it...
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Ok you win. How about, "You are at great risk of a case head separation." Is that better?
FWIW: you are also speaking in absolutes. I've had bad batches of brand new virgin brass that split on the first firing due to not being annealed. You can't always tell how good a piece of brass is by looking at it. Bulged Glock brass that has been roll sized will not reveal any fault to visual inspection, but it HAS been stretched so the metal is weakened. [/QUOTE]
Also,
Just what meter are you using?....Using my Dillon powder measure I have , again, never had a problem with Clays...And I check the powder charge every 500-600 rounds...As a matter of fact, I find the Dillon powder measures eeriely accurate....
[/QUOTE]
Dillon 650.
Airwolf said:
But why don't you mention the gun that went Ka-Boom?...It's not going to hurt anyone's feelings...
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Becasue I prefer not to slag any manufacturers on-line.
Airwolf said:
Plus, there is nothing magical about getting load data from the internet...Just go to a powder manufacturers site (like Hodgdon), and FOLLOW THE RULES....You always start with minimum charges and work your way up....You do that for ANY powder....
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Of course you know that I am not referring to official manufacturers web sites were loads are properly pressure tested. I am referring to advice solicited on web forum pages and provided by unknown strangers. The official web sites do not offer a Clays load that make major, as has already been noted. I infer from the original posters query that he is looking for a major load, hence my cautionary proclamations.
 
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I have been using CLAYS in both my STI guns with 30,000 + rounds.
For me, in both guns I make major @176-178.
I use 4.7 grains of CLAYS, 180 Aim or Montana Golds, With 1.18 OAL.

I think many years ago, (8+) I asked Rob what he used and he gave me the same information as he has done here. This info was and is not advertised in any reloading book due to the fact that the pressure made by using clays to make major is over the safety limit for this round.
He told me that I must be very careful because a mistake made by me may cost me my gun. YMMV and be careful while reloading.
I have tried other loads but for me this load works.

Rob has been around since Moses started shooting 45acp. He is an accomplished Shooter, Shooting Instructor and gun Tinkerer. Thanks Rob for all the help you have given me over the years. Hope you kick some butt at IPSC Nationals!
 
johnespos said:
I have been using CLAYS in both my STI guns with 30,000 + rounds.
For me, in both guns I make major @176-178.
I use 4.7 grains of CLAYS, 180 Aim or Montana Golds, With 1.18 OAL.

I think many years ago, (8+) I asked Rob what he used and he gave me the same information as he has done here. This info was and is not advertised in any reloading book due to the fact that the pressure made by using clays to make major is over the safety limit for this round.
He told me that I must be very careful because a mistake made by me may cost me my gun. YMMV and be careful while reloading.
I have tried other loads but for me this load works.

Rob has been around since Moses started shooting 45acp. He is an accomplished Shooter, Shooting Instructor and gun Tinkerer. Thanks Rob for all the help you have given me over the years. Hope you kick some butt at IPSC Nationals!
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:agree:
 
Quigley said:
Pssst.............I think that was his point :cool:
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Yep and Thanks!:cheers:

FWIW, I experimented with clays and 180s too. By the time I got to major, the pressure signs on the brass were past my comfort level.
It probably costs me less than any of you to fix a blown up gun; but I really don't want to risk it in the middle of a match I want to perform well at. As they say, YMMV.
 
Consistent pressure signs RD? Just curious as I seen some of my spent brass with Clays come out looking fine and the odd couple that had flattened primers.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
Yep and Thanks!:cheers:

FWIW, I experimented with clays and 180s too. By the time I got to major, the pressure signs on the brass were past my comfort level.
It probably costs me less than any of you to fix a blown up gun; but I really don't want to risk it in the middle of a match I want to perform well at. As they say, YMMV.
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Ok so I am going to claim dyslexia on this one........

I was sure that another poster had posted this who was arguing the other side of the equation.

As such my reply was right on and damned witty..........

Not making me look like a tool.
 
Sorry Quigley I was not trying to infer that all 9mm Major loads are unsafe. However there are some people using 9mm Major that seem to enjoy pushing the limits. I am beginning to wonder if some maybe substituting C4 for gun powder.
 
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