IPSC @ Barrie and No Provincials

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euxx said:
My bet is that BOD are thinking of calling the annual Frontenac Level III match Ontario Provincials, so we'll going to have just one Level III instead of two...
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Eugene I am with you on that bet.
It will be sad to see this happen, just because two adults disagree.
I like shooting in Kingston, but I would like to see one more Level III match in Ontario. For 1000 ON IPSC shooters we need more then 2-3 Levels III.
I hope to see official response from BOD about their decision till that time I am not going to comment.


Barrie has got one of the best range in Canada...
 
Dear John. Is this what the people at your Meeting looked like?

http://www.commentbuddy.com/comments/###/###.jpg

And what if Frontenac doesn't WANT to host the Provincials? Does their IPSC Rep loose his position and RO status? If I don't think I should clean my bedroom is my stepmother going to call the Ministry of Transportation and have my drivers license revoked?
 
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Guy's
The question is. Is the match a Barrie level III with the prov. on top of it? If so. How picks the RM for that match. Does IPSC On. pick all of the RM's, for all the matches? If the answer is no, then why are they trying to do it now.
hs
 
The issue was we had an agreement prior to March 17 and then when I wanted to stick to the original agreement, I was told to bad.
Last year we had 2 RMs, so what was the big deal this year?
I thought I made it clear from the start to Rachel that without Kent, I could not do this.
Then when I said I was not able to do this match without Kent and no longer in the position to do it with the change, Rachel stopped communicating with me and went behind my back to get others at our club to take over.
I wish someone could of picked up the ball at Barrie for the sake of this match.
Then I get this cover letter from Bud.

Hello John;

Please find attached a letter from IPSC Ontario stating our position
on your conduct of late with Kent Hill, concerning our decision as to
whom should be the Range Master for the 2010 IPSC Ontario Provincial
Championship Match.

If you would acknowledge receipt of the attached letter I won't
bother to send it via Registered Mail as well.

Thank you

Bud Melless
Administrator - IPSC Ontario






I ask you, would you want to have a L3 match at your club with this kind of leadership?
I did not, and am sorry that I ever tried.

I really feel bad for Kent, again he did nothing wrong and our club, Barrie it would of been nice. The opportunity to have a match that challenges the shooter by having the stages designed by the Canadian Champions was the idea for this match.

I am Sorry IPSC shooters for my conduct.
 
johnespos said:
The issue was we had an agreement prior to March 17 and then when I wanted to stick to the original agreement, I was told to bad.
Last year we had 2 RMs, so what was the big deal this year?
I thought I made it clear from the start to Rachel that without Kent, I could not do this.
Then when I said I was not able to do this match without Kent and no longer in the position to do it with the change, Rachel stopped communicating with me and went behind my back to get others at our club to take over.
I wish someone could of picked up the ball at Barrie for the sake of this match.
Then I get this cover letter from Bud.

Hello John;

Please find attached a letter from IPSC Ontario stating our position
on your conduct of late with Kent Hill, concerning our decision as to
whom should be the Range Master for the 2010 IPSC Ontario Provincial
Championship Match.

If you would acknowledge receipt of the attached letter I won't
bother to send it via Registered Mail as well.

Thank you

Bud Melless
Administrator - IPSC Ontario






I ask you, would you want to have a L3 match at your club with this kind of leadership?
I did not, and am sorry that I ever tried.

I really feel bad for Kent, again he did nothing wrong and our club, Barrie it would of been nice. The opportunity to have a match that challenges the shooter by having the stages designed by the Canadian Champions was the idea for this match.

I am Sorry IPSC shooters for my conduct.
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John you have nothing to be sorry for. I hope that the shooter will stand behide you on this
 
I was really looking forward to this match, and was going to dedicate my free time working it.

Now I am disappointed with position of IPSC Ontario BOD regarding this situation (not sure who exactly is behind this, so far I only saw Bud's and Rachel's names). I would like to see management that try to serve the community instead of trying to rule it with iron fist.

I stated earlier, I don't want to be in any army-like organization where disagreement with higher-ranking officer results in stripping of the rank and dishonorable discharge.
We're here because we want to, not because we were drafted.

I would like to ask IPSC Ontario BOD to reconsider decision regarding revocation of John's RO status. After all, it's not like we have an endless line of individuals willing to dedicate huge amounts of personal time and effort to running IPSC matches.

Yuri
 
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Id like to hear what the rest of the Ontario BOD has to say about the whole thing and did they have any say on whats going on :confused:
 
arancio said:
Madness; You know damn well it was not "the board" that did this.
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We have a board so that one person can't do something as assinine as this. If Bud was able to do this all on his own then whats the point of having a board??? If this wasn't agreed upon by the majority of the board how did it go through?
 
I really don't want to air our dirty laundry on CGN, but my name was pulled into this thread (without my permission)... So, the question arose...

hs said:
Guy's
The question is. Is the match a Barrie level III with the prov. on top of it? If so. How picks the RM for that match. Does IPSC On. pick all of the RM's, for all the matches? If the answer is no, then why are they trying to do it now.
hs
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As per the current edition rulebook,

7.1.5. Range Master (“RM”)
The RM has overall authority over all persons and activities within the
entire range, including range safety, the operation of all courses of fire and
the application of these rules. All match disqualifications and appeals to
arbitration must be brought to his attention. The Range Master is usually
appointed by and works with the Match Director, however, in respect of
IPSC sanctioned Level IV or higher matches, the appointment of the Range
Master is subject to the prior written approval of the IPSC Executive
Council.

APPENDIX A1 IPSC Match Levels
Key: N/A = Not Applicable, R = Recommended, M = Mandatory

Level I II III IV V
…5. Range Master approved by Regional
Directorate R R M R R

Our Constitution prescribes...

DUTIES OF PRESIDENT
34. The president shall:
...c. be the match director for the Ontario Championship Match;...

For the first time in my memory, our President has taken on the role as Match Director, sharing the responsibilities and duties with John E.
And I applaud her for taking that initiative.
As such, does she not have the authority to appoint the RM? I would say she does.

And further to that, by the rule books Appendix A1 the Range Master appointment must be approved by the Regional Directorate. I would assume that our Regional Directorate has assigned that power to the Head of NROI in each section. This in our case would be Bud.

I am, by no means, defending the disciplinary action that is coming from the top. I am simply pointing out that the rulebook and our constitution lays it out pretty clearly.

johnespos said:
From Rachel to John...

As I said last night, it was decided going forward there would only be one RM at Level III's, I am not going to retract that for this match.

A decision was made by myself and the NROI Ontario Coordinator, which I feel is in the best interest of the IPSC Ontario Provincial Championship Match. I stand by the decision....
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I must say, that I am in agreement that going forward, there should only be one RM at Level III’s. There are some problems that can arise from having 2 RM’s. (Think... mommy says I can't have candy, so I'll go ask daddy!) (And mind you that matches like the Triangle Championship have logistical challenges that make multiple RM’s a necessity.)

I have talked to Kent yesterday; he stated to me, he has no problem running the chrony. If he has told John different, I can’t answer to that.

I have stated to Rachel, I have no problem taking on any position as an official.

This is not a Kent vs. Phil thing.

Kent remains one of my closest friends in IPSC.

It is not my call to make. That’s what the rulebook and our constitution is for.

All those involved have some tough decisions to make and a ticking clock to add a little more pressure.

To the members of IPSC Ontario, I apologize as I am the one that initiated this whole “train wreck” by sending the following e-mail to all of those on the Provincials Committee.

Greetings to All of You,
First of all, I would like to thank “those of you in power” for my selection as Range Master for the 2010 IPSC Ontario Provincial Championship. It is indeed an honour.
I look forward to working with all of you on IPSC Ontario’s premiere match of the year. I’m sure that I will be having many conversations with Dino and Kent from now until the end of the match as I rely on their many years of Level 3 match experience and knowledge to guide me through my biggest challenge as an official to date. I commend Rachel for bringing together a very respectable TEAM to act as Provincials Committee. We all know our roles on this TEAM and I look forward to being part of this TEAM and bringing our “customers” the best match of the year.
My door is always open. Feel free to contact me anytime.
As for the date of our conference call…April 8th @ 6:30pm would be my first preference.
Respectfully,
Phil

Obviously, things were not ironed out when I sent this and it opened a can of worms. And for that I apologize.

(I am glad it came out quick though, as time is ticking.)
 
You're post is lacking in some rather important details Phil

That constitution (the only one we could find from the previous Boards that looked even remotely legitimate) appeared out of no where in 2008 (two months before the provincials) and has since been removed from the IPSC Ontario website (Sometime in Jan of this year).

If it's the current constitution (that we know needs updating) then where is it? If it's not...you can't refer to it out of convenience.

That being said...two thumbs up for Rachel stepping up...

I'm still of the opinion (that doesn't mean much these days :D) That the BOD's responsibility is identifying a suitable host...and provide them the support they need. It's not the BOD's responsibility (with all of their other duties) to run the match.

I'm not giving an opinion on the rest of this can of worms...but I trust the Board has this under control (or soon will)


Filthy1 said:
Our Constitution prescribes...

DUTIES OF PRESIDENT
34. The president shall:
...c. be the match director for the Ontario Championship Match;...
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Quigley said:
If it's the current constitution (that we know needs updating) then where is it? If it's not...you can't refer to it out of convenience.
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That would be the same constitution that we referenced during this past election. And if I recall correctly, you stated that the Constitution of 1996 is "...this is all we have (and the only complete version I have ever seen) It's also what we have been referencing since late 2008 as our current constitution."
 
Filthy1 said:
That would be the same constitution that we referenced during this past election. And if I recall correctly, you stated that the Constitution of 1996 is "...this is all we have (and the only complete version I have ever seen) It's also what we have been referencing since late 2008 as our current constitution."
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Agreed...just wondering why it's been taken down :confused:

I was happily in violation of that clause. It just doesn't make "logistical sense" to me.

MD is not a title...it's a responsibility. Unless the match is in your back yard (or your home club) Or your willing to relocate for 3 weeks...I don't see how it can be done. The MD's job starts months before the match date (with their local crew on the ground)...and ends when the first shot is fired...then the RM takes over (except for the hand shaking and handing out awards)

I wasn't willing to take on that title knowing I could not have lived up to the responsibility. I know Rachel wouldn't take it on if she wasn't committed too do it...so good for her!

Disclaimer: No Board members were hurt during this gunNutz rant. Any similarities to persons living, dead, or undead...are purely coincidental.
 
Can someone help us understand?

John is not the President of the Barrie Gun Club.

John is not the IPSC Ontario Provinials Match Director.

John is not the Range Master for the Provincials.

It now appears John is neither an RO or the Barrie IPSC Rep.

Who then is John?

It seems clear to me that John is a nobody.

So, why did the IPSC Ontario Board get all freeked out when a nobody decided to quit his role in the Provincials. By the way, what was his ROLE?
 
ok, so because John decides to resign his position as IPSC rep at the club, he gets his NROI stuff yanked as a punishment? wow that's unfair, and unrelated the issue at hand. I'd say that's someone stepping waaaay out of bounds.
 
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