ipsc black badge poll/question
- Thread starter TinkerBell
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You're
and this has what to do with this thread? here's a suggestion, go troll on american firearms sites. they are all much cooler than us canucks right?
No it isn't.
USPSA separated from IPSC in the '90's. They didn't like the way Alexokos (?spelling) was taking IPSC.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Yes to the first part, but no to the second part. IPSC is no more concerned about USPSA's rule book than it is the 3 Gun Nation Rules, ISU rules or the PPC Rules. It's just a different set of rules these days.
Both parties have blame to be had. Around Y2K; The 70+ other regions in IPSC were pissed that the US was running things under a different set of rules than they did and the US didn't like IPSC telling them what to do. Some compromises and threats when around but in the end, it was obvious the US was going to do their own thing regardless of what the rest of the World did so the best solution is what exists now.
USPSA runs USPSA matches and sometimes IPSC matches.
It can be very confusing. Each is run under a different rule set. The majority of matches in the US are run under the USPSA rule book and are not sanctioned by IPSC. (but who cares?) There is usually less than a few IPSC matches run in the US each year. One thing of import is that in order for USPSA to maintain their recognition as an IPSC region (like all regions must) they have to crown IPSC Champions at a championship. That's usually when USPSA runs an IPSC match.
The last few US IPSC matches have been at the same venue that the World Shoot is - titled the "US IPSC Nationals" in Frostproof, Florida - and they've been great matches.
In the training I recently took with Max Michel, he said he considered IPSC matches to be more difficult and challenging than USPSA and the IPSC target to be a tougher one to shoot than the good 'old Metric. So there you've got one of the best USPSA (and World) shooters acknowledging that IPSC does something right.
In the end, it's all good matches; regardless of the ruleset and bickering over it is as pointless as arguing "My Ford is better than your Chevy" even though that arguing will always exist.
Coreyd,
You missed the whole point of my post. My point was that BB is not the end all be all of save holster usage. national level competitiors do use IPSC trainers, hell I train with a IPSC guy and hold him in very high regard. Peel region did use IPSC trainers. It showed too, they had very impressive results at NSCC last year, and years prior, as did many other IPSC shooters. I am not anti IPSC, I just don't think that it is the end all be all of the shooting world.
If you want to shoot IPSC that is awesome. I do not want to shoot IPSC, I do however want to continue to safely use my holster and I don't think that a BB is the only answer to safe holster use.
As for the invite to come shoot... I would love to come out and shoot with you and other shooters. The more I can glean from other shooters regardless of their shooting discipline is always welcome. The only issue with coming out to shoot with you is I am over 2000km away from the Hub of Niagara. If I do find myself in your neck of the woods, is the invite still valid?
Also I never claimed to be the best shooter. I can shoot, and I do shoot. I have been afforded the opportunity and priviledge to shoot with some of the best shooters in the world. (right place, right time)
Just an FYI my typing skills suck.
Sean, would you please clarify what, if any, are the requirements for USPSA members to shoot matches in Canada. If someone from the US was in Canada for whatever reason and had an opportunity to shoot at a sanctioned match, or made a trip specifically to shoot the Nats or one of the Provincials, would he/she be able to, without having BB training?
Thanks.
So any region can run under its own rule book and stay affiliated?
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Sorry, I thought I was pretty clear. The US is not running under their own rule book for IPSC.
The US follows the IPSC rule book for IPSC matches.
The US has their own rule book for their USPSA matches;
IE. try attending the US IPSC Nationals in October with a 140mm Mag in Standard division or 10 round mags in production; and you'll quickly see the difference.
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Nobody ever claimed the BB was the be all and end all. Some clubs choose to recognize the BB as their defacto holster qualification _at their range_ do to that this thread evolved into a BB bashing thread. If I had a drag strip and required NHRA safety certification to run, would that be reason to bash NHRA? Of course not, which is why I don't understand how people can bash IPSC here. The decision by a club to accept one qualification over another if anything speaks to the quality of that certification but should not be used as a reason to denounce the organization that issues it.
If anything people should question the club that makes that decision. Either way I don't care because I have my BB and I have a very good relationship with the owners and RO's at the range that spurred this whole thread.
It's unfortunate you can't make it. If you would have, for a $1000 bet I would have squadded you with Eric Grauffel just to make sure I win the bet
Anyhow, I shoot like crap, bottom of the list but I have taken very nicely to the MD/RO side of IPSC. I'll shoot for fun, I'll never win anything serious but I will continue to put on the best matches in Ontario. We have the Provincials in a few weeks, should be a good time for all.
ps. You are welcome anytime you show up here, provided you are an IPSC member.
shoot I would of paid the $1000.00 just to shoot with Eric Grauffel (now that I know who he is, google was my friend) Just to pick his brain for accuracy tips and all that good stuff.
I would however like to see a way to challenge BB if it is the standard that ranges are setting as their "minimun qual" for holsters. for an IPSC match if IPSC deems you require BB then so be it. It is their sandbox. For general range practice I would like to see that challenge I spoke of.
Maybe one day.
I would however like to see a way to challenge BB if it is the standard that ranges are setting as their "minimun qual" for holsters. for an IPSC match if IPSC deems you require BB then so be it. It is their sandbox. For general range practice I would like to see that challenge I spoke of.
Maybe one day.
I know that stuff, but in my original post you said I was wrong that the US has an agreement with ipsc that allows them to use a different rule book. They use their own rule book and maintain ipsc affiliation. Can any region do this or do they not need permission from ipsc to do so and stay affiliated? Ie can we write our own rule book to use in canada and keep our ipsc affiliation?
- Location
- Halifax - NS
OK, Sorry - Yep we could do the same - would it work? Doubt it. We're a significantly different creature than the US.
I'd wager it wouldn't be long before it would degenerate in an OPSA-CPSA thing with both orgs fighting each other for members and IPSC affiliation.
You and I have been around long enough to know how that was a mess that didn't do anyone any good.
Ooooh hell yeah. I know for a fact that the US will not support an outside country to try to use a USPSA membership, or club affiliation, to be used as a "rival" org in another country. In other words you can't join USPSA if you live in Canada and try to use that as your IPSC membership to shoot matches. And you can't affiliate your club to run USPSA matches instead of IPSC.
My understanding was the US had an agreement that allowed them to run this way but it's highly unlikely any other country would be able to the same. In 2000 we had dinner with Mike Voigt on the evening of the decision and at that time it was either the US accept the IPSC rule book or be disaffiliated. The next day it was dropped, the US could maintain their rules and IPSC affiliation.
My understanding was the US had an agreement that allowed them to run this way but it's highly unlikely any other country would be able to the same. In 2000 we had dinner with Mike Voigt on the evening of the decision and at that time it was either the US accept the IPSC rule book or be disaffiliated. The next day it was dropped, the US could maintain their rules and IPSC affiliation.
That's the thing... the sole purpose of the BB is to qualify for IPSC membership. It is not a "general purpose" holster qualification. I was developed by IPSC for IPSC and was never intended to be for anything else. It's just such a good course everyone else recognizes it's merits.
The BB course requires you to shoot. You are required to prove that you can shoot accurately. Go look up the requirements of it. Like I said, you can't challenge it without doing the whole thing as it's 90% shooting exercises.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Yeah, I had lunch with Mike that day and have had a few General Assembly dinners with him since. I'll miss him at the GA this year. As I said, Y2K was a mess; threats and compromises - but things got better. The way it is now, with them doing what they want and dabbling in IPSC seems to work.
Sure you can get Canadian club affiliated with USPSA and run USPSA matches. Burlington did just that.
But that is not going to help foreign USPSA members with participation in IPSC matches.
Pat you are wrong here too. Russia had a deviation in their rule book for several years. Though the difference there is mostly around divisions, to allow LEO and military use their service guns (e.g. Makarov).
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