cheaper way - 3" slug out of pistol-gripped shotgun will impress them too
shot weak hand
IPSC Caliber Question
- Thread starter Artilery92
- Start date
shot weak hand
SVISTI1911
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
Well said. Just because you got your PAL and have a hard on for IPSC/IDPA doesn't mean you should be at it right out of the gate. The running and gunnin' shooting sports are ones you work into if you are to do it safely and do it well.
Whatever pistol you get, in what ever caliber you get, should be like a extension of your hand before you take up these sports. As some have said, put at least 1000 rounds through it before you even consider the Black Badge course.
I totally disagree with this statement as a BB instructor. the trouble is that people just pick up a hand gun and shot with what ever funky grip they saw on TV or or some movie. then they show up to take a BB course and the instructor has to spend a day breaking them of bad habits slowing down the whole class. The first thing you should do after buying a handgun is go take at least a one day lesson. it will not only help with your shooting but make your transition to a BB course a whole lot easier.
I'd be freakn nervous
I'm not sure, you may have just made my point for me ... if anyone showed up to your course like that, it's because their fresh out of a PAL course and some probationary shooting and no follow up guidance to shooting from RO's at club or other experienced shooter... there's no way someone showed up to your course with that poor ability if reasonably trained at their local club...
I've been thru a few clubs in my time and god bless the nice folk who teach the club courses, but I've seen some poor instruction and poor follow up during training/probationary shoots....thus, the bad habits or poor skill of some shooters, and no fault of their own....
of course at BB stage, it's good to mould them to the proper way without bad habits gettng in the way...
If you teach black badge, I'm proud of that and trust you've seen a few bad apples
but that first day of black badge training...oh boy, i'd be freakin nervouse if some shooter barely out of the PAL course with his/her shiny new toy were to start drawin and shootin near me....even with my showing them how to and even if they do the drill dry fire at first..
I'm not saying some people will not be good to go on next day after their PAL, cause some who just have the nack for it will be safe and learn correctly....in short, some experience is better before BB, but as long as it's good and safe experience...
I like the idea of the Mentor program... Clubs should promote that more, though they should approve of whos allowed to be one..to avoid the bad habit problem .....
I'm willing to be one at my local club (Aurora, Ontario) if anyone will have me
Cheers,
I'm not sure, you may have just made my point for me ... if anyone showed up to your course like that, it's because their fresh out of a PAL course and some probationary shooting and no follow up guidance to shooting from RO's at club or other experienced shooter... there's no way someone showed up to your course with that poor ability if reasonably trained at their local club...
I've been thru a few clubs in my time and god bless the nice folk who teach the club courses, but I've seen some poor instruction and poor follow up during training/probationary shoots....thus, the bad habits or poor skill of some shooters, and no fault of their own....
of course at BB stage, it's good to mould them to the proper way without bad habits gettng in the way...
If you teach black badge, I'm proud of that and trust you've seen a few bad apples
but that first day of black badge training...oh boy, i'd be freakin nervouse if some shooter barely out of the PAL course with his/her shiny new toy were to start drawin and shootin near me....even with my showing them how to and even if they do the drill dry fire at first..
I'm not saying some people will not be good to go on next day after their PAL, cause some who just have the nack for it will be safe and learn correctly....in short, some experience is better before BB, but as long as it's good and safe experience...
I like the idea of the Mentor program... Clubs should promote that more, though they should approve of whos allowed to be one..to avoid the bad habit problem .....
I'm willing to be one at my local club (Aurora, Ontario) if anyone will have me
Cheers,
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
Oh wow this forum is very helpful, thanks everyone! To those thinking I'm new to shooting, I'm not, just pistols. I'm in the army reserves and am fully trained on several firearms, but since I'm no officer I rarely get to handle a pistol haha. I am very confident with my own knowledge of the basic fundamentals of shooting (trigger control, safety, breathing etc..). Hmm, I never thought about having a problem with recoil due to the lighter polymer frames. I've been drooling over the Sig 226 ever since I started looking but I've kind of been restraining myself due to the price tag .
Without realizing it, what I've been doing is rushing in to buying my handgun. I'm so excited to get it and I haven't really went to the range to try anything out yet lol. My club has several pistols available for free loans so I'll be sure to test those out (i have no idea what they are specifically, probably something along the lines of Glocks or M&P's) and I may ask to try some other shooter's guns as well. I may be a little hesitant though since I am new to the club and I don't know anyone there. I'm not sure how they would react to some stranger asking to shoot their gun.
Thank you everyone for your personal opinions, they are greatly appreciated! I think you've all got me set on starting out with a nine. And no, that won't be my last handgun lol.
. Without realizing it, what I've been doing is rushing in to buying my handgun. I'm so excited to get it and I haven't really went to the range to try anything out yet lol. My club has several pistols available for free loans so I'll be sure to test those out (i have no idea what they are specifically, probably something along the lines of Glocks or M&P's) and I may ask to try some other shooter's guns as well. I may be a little hesitant though since I am new to the club and I don't know anyone there. I'm not sure how they would react to some stranger asking to shoot their gun.
Thank you everyone for your personal opinions, they are greatly appreciated! I think you've all got me set on starting out with a nine. And no, that won't be my last handgun lol.
Don't worry or hesitate to ask as a stranger to try their gun, cause in this sport, if you like guns, you're a friendly... and trust me, 99% of those guys will like to show off their gun to you....
Ask alot of questions & Have fun...
oh, what area you in ?
Ask alot of questions & Have fun...
oh, what area you in ?
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
I'm an artillery gunner. You can't spell party without the arty
Edit: I live in Ottawa. I couldn't tell if you were asking what area of the army, or my location lol.
Edit: I live in Ottawa. I couldn't tell if you were asking what area of the army, or my location lol.
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Tom, my .40 production load consisted of 3.7gr. of titegroup under a 180 gr. Montana Gold TMJ. .40 brass is cheap and plentiful and will cost you no more than 9mm brass. Primers are the same. My current load for 9mm is 3.3 gr. of N320 or titegroup.
Aside from the cost difference between 9mm and 40 cal bullets (20 or so dollars per thousand?), there is a slight increase in the amount of rounds you can make in 9mm with a pound of powder.
All in all I'd say it is around $25 cheaper to make a 1000 rounds of 9mm compared to 40S&W.
That is a pretty small premium when you factor in the rest of the costs associated with competing in the sport.
Aside from the cost difference between 9mm and 40 cal bullets (20 or so dollars per thousand?), there is a slight increase in the amount of rounds you can make in 9mm with a pound of powder.
All in all I'd say it is around $25 cheaper to make a 1000 rounds of 9mm compared to 40S&W.
That is a pretty small premium when you factor in the rest of the costs associated with competing in the sport.
1riot1ranger
CGN Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Thanks. Appreciate the info.
I've got 5k of .40 (at least) polished and ready to go. I managed to pick up 8lbs of titegroup so I'm ready to rock once I pick up some Aim or BDX 180s.
Also, I concur with respect to the cost of shooting .40 vs. 9mm. The costs per thousand could be less than you've identified if we compare 165 gr. 40 loads to 147gr. 9mm. If you want to shoot 40, go for it. Cost isn't that big a factor.
To give the OP some context: I've been shooting 9mm in IDPA and IPSC. I started out shooting a G22. I'm considering moving to a G35 and going back to .40 in a low PF load.
Just to totally hijack this thread: what did those chrono and what were you shooting?
Straight from PAL to Blackbadge is a good idea in my view. A person would learn fundamental skills and proper habits right off the bat. You don't need to be going hard for your first matches, and most people don't. Buy your gun, take some lessons, BB at the least, and then shoot. Tons. Get the 9mm only get a .40 if you want to go Standard Division. 9mm will do everything you need. If you are hot on IPSC dp not waste your time with bullseye stuff (sorry Euxx), you will hate it. And honestly it doesn't have a lot to offer you.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
+1 to Walter and Rob with regards to the action skills; the BB is perfect time to learn them for the first time - properly and safely, but it's not easy to teach the fundamentals of shooting an accurate shot at that course - time is at a premium and it's not the focus.
The student has to be able to get the post into that notch and squeeze off a shot and hit something close to what they were aiming at before he shows up at a BB.
In NS, we have the requirement that a person has to be able to put every shot they fire - with the gun they're going to use - with no time limit - on a standard piece of paper at 20 yards before they attend. We'll then do the rest.
The student has to be able to get the post into that notch and squeeze off a shot and hit something close to what they were aiming at before he shows up at a BB.
In NS, we have the requirement that a person has to be able to put every shot they fire - with the gun they're going to use - with no time limit - on a standard piece of paper at 20 yards before they attend. We'll then do the rest.
You of course can have your opinion on that, but if person is unable to squeeze the trigger right and have a follow trough after the shot, it will hurt his IPSC game big time and it will be much harder to get it right after that.
As for going straight to BB course... I believe each province has its own flavor of it. I believe Ontario BB courses are focused more on the safety rather then on proper stance, grip and follow trough, as long as you can hit the target more or less most of the time.
Actually...there is no "Ontario BB Course" It's National...and as such should be the same in each province. There is a test and the end of the course that all students have to pass. But yes...safety is always a primary focus.
Actually I didn't said there is an "Ontario BB Course". However each province has its own BB instructors and even so the course outline and test is the same for everyone, there has to be differences in a way courses are thought.
Euxx,
I agree with you. It is a good idea to get into IPSC through some bullseye training. Learning the trigger, sights and even work on stance without adding other elements of the game can in the future only benefit new IPSC shooter.
Actually, I know one very good shooter who does pre-IPSC BB training and I think this is an excellent idea.
My two cents
Peter
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
we too expect them to be able to keep all shots on an IPSC target at 25yds, but that is a skill that can be taught pretty easy. I am not a bullseye fan (obviously), and don't honestly feel much translates to IPSC. Shooting is shooting, yes, but I'd rather see someone simply learn how to shoot, freestyle, then strong hand, then weak hand etc. Bullseye is a totally different game.
Dyed in the wool Bullseye shooters tend to have good trigger control...and they need it because their finger never leaves the bloody trigger.
A lot of Bullseye shooters keep their finger on the trigger when they are at the 45 waiting for the targets to turn...
Many of those same shooters have a harder time making the transition to IPSC...and keeping their finger outside the trigger guard when not engaging a target.
There's pluses and minuses...
the PPC /Bullseye shooters usually make easy transition to IPSC,...the only thing they lack is movement and stage gaming. (they usually don't miss). Sometimes you see the Tea-cup grip but they usually get over that.....I find they draw and mag change slower,..but usually are very safe.
Most I have seen can easily put 10 rounds within a 3 to 2 inch grouping at 20 yards,...of course with no time limit. TIme limit ALWAYS screws with new guys...LOL
Most I have seen can easily put 10 rounds within a 3 to 2 inch grouping at 20 yards,...of course with no time limit. TIme limit ALWAYS screws with new guys...LOL
I know a lot of ipsc shooters who don't have a bullseye background who moan and groan about shooting one handed ipsc stages... I know a lot of ipsc shooters who have a background in bullseye who don't moan and groan about shooting one handed ipsc stages.. That's probably the only difference I see..
Bullseye training, like ipsc training, can be good or bad. If you have really good instructors in bullseye, I think that would help your subsequent ipsc training and shooting. If you don't, well, what "bad" habits you pick up could very well haunt you in ipsc.
So the answer, as always, seems to be "depends"
There are always exceptions, but on average, I believe that ipsc instructors (at least those I've worked with in the past) would strongly prefer their students to have some basis is pistol shooting - safety and performance, with no time pressure or movement.
Bullseye training, like ipsc training, can be good or bad. If you have really good instructors in bullseye, I think that would help your subsequent ipsc training and shooting. If you don't, well, what "bad" habits you pick up could very well haunt you in ipsc.
So the answer, as always, seems to be "depends"
There are always exceptions, but on average, I believe that ipsc instructors (at least those I've worked with in the past) would strongly prefer their students to have some basis is pistol shooting - safety and performance, with no time pressure or movement.
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