IPSC Classic 1911 in .40
- Thread starter Ag Driver
- Start date
I will say your statement of "it is the shooter not the gun" is correct.
But I can't agree with the example you use. That is not comparing apple to apple.
That minor shooter is a World champ. And he out perform Canadian Open guys.
You do not see that in World shoot.
It is a acceptable thing in the action shooting group that equipment need to match with shooter's current shooting skill.
In case of the classic division, people who need to do make up shots, will prefer the 10 round minor.
People who do not need make up shots, but have many C while pushing for speed will prefer the major points.
People who shoot 92% and up "A", 9 mm minor may provide a little advantage because it allow faster time and a little loose grip.
At world shoot, Ben number 1 production guy rank #75 overall, the number 1 classic guy rank #152.
All best shooters in the world, the difference coming from equipment and IPSC rules.
You simply can’t cross compare shooters amoungst different divisions.
You cannot say an open shooter is the best in the world simply because they ranked 1st overall.
Its simply a cynical way to measure ones performance excluding all divisional rules and equipment bonuses.
As per OP, classic minor vs classic major needs to be tailored to the shooters preference.
There is no better, each year this is proven as different winners use different styles/scoring.
Obviously each has benefits. My belief is minor is majority simply based on costs differences.
I would easily benefit from major based on my large points drop and fast speed. I cannot commit to purchasing far more brass or drastically increasing brass recovery efforts.
You cannot say an open shooter is the best in the world simply because they ranked 1st overall.
Its simply a cynical way to measure ones performance excluding all divisional rules and equipment bonuses.
As per OP, classic minor vs classic major needs to be tailored to the shooters preference.
There is no better, each year this is proven as different winners use different styles/scoring.
Obviously each has benefits. My belief is minor is majority simply based on costs differences.
I would easily benefit from major based on my large points drop and fast speed. I cannot commit to purchasing far more brass or drastically increasing brass recovery efforts.
Huh? Jason Koon, who won Classic Overall in Canada with a Minor gun in last two years, is not a world champ and he was 75% of the Open in 2016 and 80% of Ben Stoeger in 2017 (who shot Production, also in Minor, but same 10 rounds as Open and Classic). So, I'd say there is about 20..30% room for growth in Classic for us Canadian shooters and it is fair comparison with the same magazine capacity - oranges to oranges.
Now you are comparing apples to oranges at the World shoot. Open - ~30 rounds mags; Production - 15 rounds mags and Classic - 8 or 10 rounds mags. That lead to quite different stage plans. Also I was there and the 2017 WS match was heavily leaning on accuracy (a lot of distance and partial targets), so Major did have advantage there. In Canada... it all depends on the match setup, but as you've seen the win was quite doable for a Minor gun, if you have a well prepared shooter behind it.
- Location
- Halifax - NS
Eugene, you're wasting your time...can't you tell from magictalent's videos and posts that he's got more experience, skill and knowledge about our sport than all of us combined?
Your membership on multiple Canadian Teams competing around the world, the investment you've spent training with Eric; Ivan's multiple national titles and years of experience - it's nothing in comparison.
Your membership on multiple Canadian Teams competing around the world, the investment you've spent training with Eric; Ivan's multiple national titles and years of experience - it's nothing in comparison.
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Sean, I'm bored. Can't you tell?! 
You and I both know that winners and top competitors don't plan for makeup shots and C's... you won't be winning matches with those, so what's the point to talk what gun is more competitive if you're not planning to win? It takes skill and guts to run with a "9 round" stage plan with 8 round magazine or "11 rounds" plan with 10 round magazine. You learn it after shooting many many matches.
PS: Jason won 2017 after nearly not practicing for the whole year... Guy has the natural talent and a lot of experience
You and I both know that winners and top competitors don't plan for makeup shots and C's... you won't be winning matches with those, so what's the point to talk what gun is more competitive if you're not planning to win? It takes skill and guts to run with a "9 round" stage plan with 8 round magazine or "11 rounds" plan with 10 round magazine. You learn it after shooting many many matches.
PS: Jason won 2017 after nearly not practicing for the whole year... Guy has the natural talent and a lot of experience
1riot1ranger
CGN Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
After shooting both Major and Minor (Major at the WS) I can say with great confidence that I have no idea which offers a clear advantage over the other....
If the COFs are balanced, then PF selection shouldn’t matter. And this means that the guys making the rules for Classic got it about as “right”as it can be.
However, there can be COFs that favour Major over Minor (and vice versa). Experience in stage planning will help make the determination.
.40 offers the benefit of being able to shoot either Major or Minor without having to buy a second gun.
If the COFs are balanced, then PF selection shouldn’t matter. And this means that the guys making the rules for Classic got it about as “right”as it can be.
However, there can be COFs that favour Major over Minor (and vice versa). Experience in stage planning will help make the determination.
.40 offers the benefit of being able to shoot either Major or Minor without having to buy a second gun.
1riot1ranger
CGN Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Not when the stage is 24 poppers arranged in banks of 8.
But on the whole I agree with you. Particularly in Alberta. But about 30% of the time I find myself wishing I was shooting Minor.
grin...poke...poke....
Yeah overall I really do believe that major is clearly a winner over minor although, as you point out, there are occasions.
OP - Grab one of those blasters from Freedom. STI isn't making the Trojan anymore and a new .40 in a 1911 is going to cost you a lot more in the near future!
Yeah overall I really do believe that major is clearly a winner over minor although, as you point out, there are occasions.
OP - Grab one of those blasters from Freedom. STI isn't making the Trojan anymore and a new .40 in a 1911 is going to cost you a lot more in the near future!
carsmovies
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Mississauga, Ontario
Doesn't hold 9 rounds on a unloaded start.
Eugene, you're wasting your time...can't you tell from magictalent's videos and posts that he's got more experience, skill and knowledge about our sport than all of us combined?
Your membership on multiple Canadian Teams competing around the world, the investment you've spent training with Eric; Ivan's multiple national titles and years of experience - it's nothing in comparison.
Okay, not a good place to talk.
I zip my mouth and back to traing.
Thank you for all the advises.
Another vote for 9mm minor here. With an 8 round gun you have to eat a 1.5 to 2 second reload on every 10 round array you encounter. On average, I see a lot more matches with 10 round arrays than not. As well, an alpha hit is worth 5 points major or minor so if you take a little bit more care on the accuracy end you still come out ahead on overall speed not having to do the extra reloads.
Brass and bullets are cheaper so you can shoot more for the same money. I have a Trojan in 9mm and it is an absolute dream to shoot.
Brass and bullets are cheaper so you can shoot more for the same money. I have a Trojan in 9mm and it is an absolute dream to shoot.
You better be faster then 1.5-2 seconds if you're doing a static reload.... almost all reloads are done on the move however, as stated in this thread; a lot of people miss on steel making a usual 8 shot array out of rounds in a major gun.
My vote goes to 9mm as there is just something about the recoil arc of a 9mm 1911 but if OP wants a .40, I see no major downfall
- Location
- London, On
I have a Para in .40 if you want to try it. Tanfoglio in 9mm also. I think I'm going to keep my eye out for a Tanfo in .40, really like how it shoots
