IPSC Ethic DQ Rules...

Still not finding in the rule book the mention about doing it at the end of a run is "Totally acceptable" to avoid me doing personal interpretation, do you have the clause number?

The purpose of the question is to find out Rules in writing about the time frame of DQing someone...!
 
I think coreyd explained in post #18.

It is customary for the RO to stop the competitor and issue a DQ at the time of the action that requires the DQ but if there is a delay in doing so this does not void whatever requires the DQ, regardless of the score sheet being signed or anything else up to the end of the match.

In the case you described the delay in issuing the DQ arose from the RO consulting the CRO which happened after the COF was completed. The fact that this delay was caused by the RO does not change what happened, although it does make for some uncertainty since it isn't possible for the CRO or anyone else to inspect the condition of the handgun at the time it was originally holstered.
 
Section 11.3 talks about time limits for appeal to arbitration but I can't find anything about time limit for issuing a DQ.

So while the one hour window Slavex suggests in post #20 makes a lot of sense to me "if it's not is the rule book, it's just an opinion".

However, being told in the afternoon that you are DQ'd for something that happened in the morning would be very difficult to accept, to say the least. And in this case when would be window for arbitration start? If it started at the time of the action it would be too late to arbitrate...

From the 2015 rule book:
10.3.1 A competitor who commits a safety infraction or any other prohibited activity during an IPSC match will be
disqualified, and will be prohibited from attempting any remaining courses of fire regardless of the schedule
or physical layout of the match, pending the verdict of any appeal submitted in accordance with Chapter 11
of these rules..
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This provision that the competitor "... be prohibited from attempting any remaining courses of fire ..." indicates the DQ should be issued before proceeding to the next stage, but obviously the DQ can only be issued when the official(s) realize that a DQ is required.
 
Thanks!

The logic is there with the commun sens, but like you said, it's not clearly stipulate in the rule book... and opinion has different reading by different people...

But it's not easy to write rules that are not to much details, but enough to avoid interpretation.
Been working with standard for the last 25 years, interpretation it's the worst nightmare... and sad one sometimes!
 
There is nothing in the rule book saying a DQ at the end of a stage for something that occurred during the stage isn't allowed. I've seen numerous competitors DQ'd after a stage was completed, for a variety of infractions. Sometimes they weren't stopped because the RO on the timer wasn't the one who saw the infraction and the other RO didn't yell loud enough, or thought it was safer to do at the end of the run. I've also seen someone DQ'd for handling ammo in the safety area 4hrs earlier. Hell I've seen a Match Director DQ'd for smoking pot during lunch, well after he'd smoked his joint.
 
MysticMartin said:
Should the RO been DQ also???
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The RO didn't do anything unsafe, the competitor did. The ROs are volunteers, and it's not a fun job. ROs DQ only when they're sure a rule is broken, or an equipment malfunction has taken place. If the RO is in doubt, he should stop and ask, but sometimes the pressure to push the squad through gets the better of him, and he has to ask when the next opportunity comes up, but that doesn't mean the offence didn't happen - it just shows a half-gap in his knowledge of the rules (half, because it did catch his notice, but he didn't stop the shooter right there).

The RO involved (any anyone reading this who wonders what they would have missed in the same situation), should settle on a couch some evening this week, put their feet up, and re-read the current Rule book. It's the driest thing to read, but it's hard to know the whole thing by heart without periodic review (unless you're living as an RO every weekend, and even then, there are obscurities).
 
Hi Martin,

Just saw this thread... Btw, Happy New Year!!

I was working on this range when the incident happened.

Rules are always subject to interpretation.

10.3.2 When a disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the
time and date of the incident, on the competitor's score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon
as possible.

We all agree with this rule...

9.7.4 A score sheet signed by both a competitor and a Range Officer is conclusive evidence that the course of fire
has been completed, and that the time, scores and penalties recorded on the score sheet, are accurate and
uncontested. The signed score sheet is deemed to be a definitive document and, with the exception of the
mutual consent of the competitor and the signatory Range Officer, or due to an arbitration decision, the score
sheet will only be changed to correct arithmetical errors or to add procedural penalties under Rule 8.6.2.

I would use these 2 rules to argue the DQ...

The score sheet is signed and definitive as per the rulebook (only modifications allowed are math errors or procedurals), hence there is no scoresheet to record the DQ as required in rule 10.3.2
 
r1rich said:
Hi Martin,

Just saw this thread... Btw, Happy New Year!!

I was working on this range when the incident happened.

Rules are always subject to interpretation.

10.3.2 When a disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the
time and date of the incident, on the competitor's score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon
as possible.

We all agree with this rule...

9.7.4 A score sheet signed by both a competitor and a Range Officer is conclusive evidence that the course of fire
has been completed, and that the time, scores and penalties recorded on the score sheet, are accurate and
uncontested. The signed score sheet is deemed to be a definitive document and, with the exception of the
mutual consent of the competitor and the signatory Range Officer, or due to an arbitration decision, the score
sheet will only be changed to correct arithmetical errors or to add procedural penalties under Rule 8.6.2.

I would use these 2 rules to argue the DQ...

The score sheet is signed and definitive as per the rulebook (only modifications allowed are math errors or procedurals), hence there is no scoresheet to record the DQ as required in rule 10.3.2
Click to expand...

Thanks R1rich!

That's the answer I was looking for...

Sadly everything is subject to interpretation... that's a distinction between the altruism or none...

I didn't call for an arbitration and that's my mistake... But I'm learning!

Too much trust in human being and RM... ;-))

I'll be curious to know the result of the formal writing complain that was raise after... If anyone could PM me!

Thanks agains about these rules... really help me to understand!

Happy new year R1rich with health that give you all the energy to accomplish all your dream!

We all need to dream... but we need also to materialist them!!!
 
minniehill2 said:
So just getting into IPSC this spring, how does this apply to a pistol without a safety?
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IE a striker fired? It doesn't apply,rack the slide, don't put finger in trigger guard and holster the pistol. If the gun has a mechanical safety it has to work and has to be used, BUT If it has a decocker You can either leave it in Single action with it on safe or Decock for DA.
 
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AHiltz said:
Then it wouldn't be in Production, you would be in Standard and at a dissadvantage over other standard guns
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Who says it has to be in production? Thats like saying all Glocks has to shoot production. The 17L/22L, 17C,22C or 34/35 can't some cannot shoot standard and some have to be shot open. It was a general question. Guy asked what if he doesn't have a safety. Means either he has a striker fired or a decocker. General question if a gun has a manual safety it has to be used, unless you got a decocker. But depends on the class you want to shoot, if you dont got a safety then dont need to worry.
 
RobertMcC said:
IE a striker fired? It doesn't apply,rack the slide, don't put finger in trigger guard and holster the pistol. If the gun has a mechanical safety it has to work and has to be used, BUT If it has a decocker You can either leave it in Single action with it on safe or Decock for DA.
Click to expand...

Going to try my sig p320. Thanks.
 
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