IPSC & IDPA Stages

PapaHotel01 said:
Well I guess the same could be said for loading competitors hot behind the line while someone is shooting the stage, but we heard lots of complaints about that.....
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Of course, if you were actually there - you'd know that the primary issue was about being rushed though it (which was absolutely correct!), not the safety aspect. :rolleyes:
Having done it myself, I felt no safety issue as the person shooting nor the person loading.
 
Where would I get an IDPA course in Ontario? Please don't send me to IDPA Canada site. Anywhere in GTA is overbooked for year ahead. IPSC Black Badge situation is even worse! A friend of mine was waiting for half a year already and no movement whatsoever.

Any pointers or direct contact would be greatly appreciated!
 
Freedom Ventures said:
Of course, if you were actually there - you'd know that the primary issue was about being rushed though it (which was absolutely correct!), not the safety aspect. :rolleyes:
Having done it myself, I felt no safety issue as the person shooting nor the person loading.
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No I wasn't there but the complaints I heard were about being loaded behind the line, maybe they aren't as comfortable with this as you were.
 
ss1980 said:
Where would I get an IDPA course in Ontario? Please don't send me to IDPA Canada site. Anywhere in GTA is overbooked for year ahead. IPSC Black Badge situation is even worse! A friend of mine was waiting for half a year already and no movement whatsoever.

Any pointers or direct contact would be greatly appreciated!
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East Elgin hosts them from time to time if demand is there. Send a PM to M&P40 here on CGN. Club is quite a bit outside of the GTA, but we have members from Toronto. Maybe about a 2 hour drive.

Canuck44 said:
Revolver neutral stages is more than a suggestion.
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I always default to Ken's advise on this....every stage is revolver neutral because revolvers only shoot against other revolvers. The one thing you don't want to do is screw a revolver shooter by setting a stage to have the 6th or 12th shot activate a disappearing target.



In terms of stage design, I find IPSC and IDPA stages to be significantly different. I like shooting IPSC because of the creativity required. I like shooting IDPA because it seems to be more about accuracy. (ie, mandatory head shots, D's get penalties, etc).
 
PapaHotel01 said:
No I wasn't there but the complaints I heard were about being loaded behind the line, maybe they aren't as comfortable with this as you were.
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Well being theremyself, anybody who was nervous of the guy being loaded behind the line must have bad nerves. A seperate RO faced you point blank into a berm 180 degrees away from the shooter and then stood over you still facing the berm until it was your turn to shoot. There was NO safety issue, the issue was the not getting to run through the stage as they patched the shooter ahead of you. We had a three min walk through and that was it. Also if there was a range equipment issue (and there was) you could end up standing there with your RO for what seemed an eternity waiting with nowhere to go because of being loaded.

This thread is so full of BS. We all know there needs to be a 90 degree rule. The argument always comes down to was it 91 degrees or was it less but the RO or shooter may have lost perpective during the stage. The safe way is to ask the CRO if I engage the target from here ???? Good stage design should eliminate the need to even have the possibility of breaking 90 when engaging targets but the responsibility still stays on the shooter. If the range in designed for a wider degree based on berms and setup all the better.
 
Onagoth said:
I always default to Ken's advise on this....every stage is revolver neutral because revolvers only shoot against other revolvers. The one thing you don't want to do is screw a revolver shooter by setting a stage to have the 6th or 12th shot activate a disappearing target.
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Unfortunately Ken died about the same time the addendum was published. Shooting in the open when cover is available on a stage now only occurs at the start of a stage. A stage to be revolver friendly cannot have four targets out in the open at the start of a stage requiring two rounds each. Your disappearing target example reflects the same comcern but can involve a situation starting with the shooter having four rounds available as well if you have two diappearing targets. Another example, not involvimg revolvers is to avoid 11 round stages due to the fact there are ESP 1911 shooters using 9 round mags and some using 10 round mags.

Take Care

Bob
 
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We have a similar situation with classic division. Rule book says no more than 9 from one position but this gives a large advantage to a minor gun, and really punishes a major gun if its on an unloaded start.
 
PapaHotel01 said:
We have a similar situation with classic division. Rule book says no more than 9 from one position but this gives a large advantage to a minor gun, and really punishes a major gun if its on an unloaded start.
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You would think someone wold pick up on it. Fortunately IDPA doesn't yet mandate # of rounds per position. Experienced MD's will avoid the 11 rd stage for the obvious reasons. For IPSC those designing stages should try to avoid the 9 round situation to avoid giving the minor shooter the adadvantage.

Take Care

Bob
 
disagree completely with the rule interpretation for stages in IDPA (or at least the thinking behind it) and the Classic division complaint. First off the IDPA one, dumbing down a stage to suit a particular gun choice or physical handicap weakens the whole point of the exercise. Now bare (bear? it's 4:30am and I've been up 24hrs) in mind I don't actually shoot IDPA, but knowing the history of the sport somewhat and having a decent idea about what can happen in real life, 4 targets in the open, at anytime, during a stage is certainly realistic and valid. The exaggerated "tacticalness" of the stage design is pointless and removes any sense of realism in my view. As does the low port interpretation. Sometimes it just plain sucks being old, fat and lame, but guess what, in real life I might need to hit the dirt and get back up. those who have a problem with it aren't in contention for winning, so making rules to accommodate them in such a way is pointless.
IPSC Classic division, well honestly, you pick your gun knowing what to expect, you pick Major so you get more points for those Cs and Ds, you pick minor for the capacity. Some stages one is a definite advantage over the other, but it goes both ways. Blame the rules, not the stage. Reloads are a part of life, having to do them at inopportune moments is too.
 
While I will agree that 4 targets could very well "realistically" appear at any given time. When was the last time you saw a police report or civilian shooting case where the shooter exclaimed "dude! It was sooo weird, every time I looked out a window there was 4 bad guys standing there!"
 
PapaHotel01 said:
While I will agree that 4 targets could very well "realistically" appear at any given time. When was the last time you saw a police report or civilian shooting case where the shooter exclaimed "dude! It was sooo weird, every time I looked out a window there was 4 bad guys standing there!"
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Four targets can represent one guy moving around and doesn't necessarily represent four individuals. You just got to go back to your childhood days and use your imagination. Back in the day my hospital bed was my horse and Gene Autry lived. The Indians didn't make out so well. LOL

Slavex targets don't always represent BG's, they can represent wolves, a bear or any other threat you want to make them. Sometimes we shoot out round steel disks to represent headlights as well. You don't shoot IDPA so I understand your confusion. 99% of the discussion regarding the rules of IDPA come from IPSC shooters who don't/can't grasp the idea the two sports are different with different mind sets.

The issue regarding revolvers and disappearing targets is valid. Over a beer we can discuss next time I am down your way.

Bob
 
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In IPSC we just put up a moving target :D
We used to have Fixed time and Virginia count stages that were supposed to simulate either a target that was gone or no longer a threat (if you used your imagination) but they took those away from us.
 
PapaHotel01 said:
In IPSC we just put up a moving target :D
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That is funny.

I think both sports have their place. I find IDPA slow and too much predictable, also, shooting with restrictions?... I know, looks more like real thing.
What I will do to make it easier for both sports is introducing one safety course, where IDPA shooters can shoot IPSC without taking BB.
 
To be honest Peter I would disagree. The main reason being that the two sports are similar but different enough to need their own requirements for the course. Remember it's more that just a holster course. IPSC BB course teaches the IPSC rule book and how our matches work as well as how to draw, reload and move safely. IDPA should still require IPSC Shooters to take their Orientation course to learn about IDPA rules and matches. As well as drawing and reloading from a true concealment holster. The types of holsters and draws we work with are a bit different. While IPSC may allow concealment type holsters, IDPA does not allow race holsters. And judging by the reaction to one of our club shooters who shot at our match last year wearing a IWB holster, a lot of the newer IPSC shooters are uneasy around a true concealment holster.
Unless IPSC and IDPA can come together to develop a new common course that covers all aspects of both sports, then I think it is best that each runs its own program.
 
Well put and agreed.

New IDPA shooters are not required to attend a NSO course. Some clubs insist they do.

New IDPA members receive in their initial package an excellent CD covering all aspects of IDPA shooting.

Take Care

Bob
 
PapaHotel01 said:
In IPSC we just put up a moving target :D
We used to have Fixed time and Virginia count stages that were supposed to simulate either a target that was gone or no longer a threat (if you used your imagination) but they took those away from us.
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Funny you should say that because every IDPA match I have been to in the USA has moving targets, they are great!
 
PeterPan said:
What I will do to make it easier for both sports is introducing one safety course, where IDPA shooters can shoot IPSC without taking BB.
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Well IMHO why re-invent the best wheel going ... That is to say I recommend to ALL my action shooters at my club that they take the BB course because it really is like no other in the world. It is by far the best ... So what I would like to see is the BB course open for all who want it to take without the extra cost of IPSC membership for those who do not wish to shoot IPSC. This would serve the shooting community as a whole by improving the quality and safety of the shooters and would also act as a fundraiser for IPSC too. A win win IMHO.

Action shooting Director/Instructor RO/SO
Parry Sound, ON
 
The only thing is you are not technically BB qualified until you shoot a match. And you need to have a membership to do that.
 
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