IPSC Production gun question

It's really a ridiculous arguement. You can't be DQ'd for putting the loaded mag in, but the RO doesn't have to let you leave the line until he's happy. Is it really worth the arguement. If the RO is happy with a loaded mag being used, fine, if the gun goes bang you are done for the match. OTOH if the RO insists on you using an empty mag, just empty one and use it, it's not worth holding up the match and getting all worked up over it, which won't affect you match in a positive way, with something so minor.
 
Slavex said:
Eugene you've seen me argue over bad calls before. DQ'ing someone who is doing something allowed by the rulebook because you don't like it, won't be supported by an Arbitration Committee.
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Rob, you're missed my point. I was referring to the part of 10.6.1 talking about "failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".
 
Eugene the point is, its not reasonable direction. We are allowed to use a loaded mag, requesting otherwise for your own comfort isn't supported by the rule book. You can ask me to stand on my head, which may seem reasonable to you, but certainly isn't to me. And unless its in the rule book, it isn't going to happen.
 
Rob, it has nothing to do with my own comfort and it is not supported by the rule book either way. So, the only option in this case, as Pat already said, is to play nice.

BTW, can you please remind me procedure of unloading firearm? And while you are at it, you may want to look up definition of loaded firearm... Just saying.
 
Here are the rules, so long as the gun meets the conditions set out below there is no issue. The rules specifically do not mention anything about placing a mag in the gun in order to facilitate the Hammer down portion. Once the If Clear Hammer Down is done, the magazine is removed, and then the And Holster happens. I am still failing to see what the issue is. the gun has been proven clear, the magazine you seem to take issue with is removed, and the gun is holstered. Totally safe, the gun is not loaded.

8.3.6. "If You Are Finished, Unload And Show Clear"
If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his handgun and
present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down
range, magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty.
Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.
8.3.7. "If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster"
After issuance of this command, the competitor must not resume shooting
(see Rule 10.6.1). While continuing to point the handgun safely downrange,
the competitor must perform a final safety check of the handgun as follows:
8.3.7.1. Self-loaders – release the slide and pull the trigger (without
touching the hammer or decocker, if any).
8.3.7.2. Revolvers – close the empty cylinder (without touching the
hammer, if any).
8.3.7.3. If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his
handgun. Once the competitor's hands are clear of the holstered
handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.
8.3.7.4. If the gun does not prove to be clear, the Range Officer will
resume the commands from Rule 8.3.6 (also see Rule 10.4.3).
 
Wow... I go away for a couple of days and come back to this :HR:

Eux, save yourself some grief... don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I support how the NROI Canada Website answers this question:

The answer is not in the rule book. What is recommended is that you tell the Ranger Officer at the beginning of the stage that you require a magazine in the firearm in order to drop the hammer on an empty chamber. The magazine that you use to do this should be empty. Communication is the key. Make sure that the Range Officer is informed.

The rule book states competitor has to perform a final safety check which includes:

8.3.7.1. Self-loaders – release the slide and pull the trigger (without touching the hammer or decocker, if any).

I don’t care what means the competitor uses to make it possible for competitor to drop the hammer by pulling the trigger.

I have seen guys use unloaded mags, loaded mags, their finger… hell, even a Popsicle stick.

At the point that a competitor is ready to deactivate a mag catch safety, YOU and the competitor have already witnessed a mag being removed from the gun, a live round ejected from the chamber, LOOKED at an empty chamber and watched the slide go forward on an EMPTY chamber.

If after hammering down, the gun goes bang… the competitor has failed, YOU as an official have failed, but God has not.

And the competitor pays the ultimate price for the mistakes of two.
 
A small note, there is a proposal to change the rule for 2012 so that if a mag is used, it must be an empty one. I have no issue with the change at all, and it will certainly makes things easier from that point on. However, right now, there is no such requirement and no need to ask people to do so.
 
They should change the rules so competitors drop the hammer 6 (or more) times on revolvers too - you know, for the children...
 
Slavex said:
K Vince says no go with loaded mag. In this instance I'll bend.
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Let me get this straight............

The rules currently do not disallow it.

There is a PROPOSAL to change the rules to disallow it.........but it has not been passed.

ONE individual on the Exec says that he does not like it.

So now it is not allowed?

Is that what I am reading here?

If so why the heck even have rules? Why have votes? Why have an organization at all?

Change the name of IPSC to VPPSC for christ sakes!
 
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