IPSC Rules?

MOBILE 1

MOBILE 1

CGN Regular
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Location
windsor
I think it is time to look into changing some of the rules in IPSC.
For one If you want to become a Black Badge instructor why do you need to be a R/O for one year?
Why not make it like the R/O course 2 days of class room instruction then you must teach under a master instructor for your first class.
My point for this is what if you have no desire to become a R/O and you just want to help people get into this sport.
 
I finish my BB course this weekend. We spent 4 hours covering the rules. Some of the questions our group had, could be answered more thorough as our two instructors have experience as ROs. They could give us life experience examples to backup the answers.

I found it helped. I asked some of the same questions to people that shoot in matches and they couldn't answer them as thorough.

My two cents..

I am glad that you're promoting the sport. :)
 
...4string wins the prize...

Remember...the BB course is not intended to teach you "how to shoot"...it's intended to teach you "how to shoot IPSC"

That requires a solid (and up to date) understanding of the rules. Requiring that instructors are current RO's is just one addition check point.

If people have suggestions...please feel free to pass them along.

We're always looking for ways to improve the program...but this requirement is not likely to change.

Joe...I think you would make an excellent instructor and RO (hint hint) :cool:

Regards

Craig Stoklosar
IPSC Ontario
 
4string brings up my point. REAL WORLD EXPEREINCE. I know R/Oing expereince is important. But my question is why is it he ONLY way to become a Black Badge instructor.

Please to not take what I am about to say the wrong way. I do not mean to sound like I am bad mouthing R/O's because that is the farthis thing from the truth. I think R/Oing is the moast thankless job out there. My hat is off to any body that pick's up a timer and run's around after us. They are the reason we have the matches we shoot.
 
I am interested in becoming an R/O AND a BB instructor. I had a hard time getting into a BB course out here, so I think more BB instructors would be great. Becoming an RO would help me learn the rules even better and become a better shooter and competitor. I am also the kind of guy who likes to know all the rules so as an RO, I owuld have to know them, ya know? ;)
 
So what you are looking for is a BB instructor to be able to teach the BB course to people, without having adequate prior experience??

Being a shooter for a year, before being able to be an RO, and being an RO for a year before being able to become a BB instructor is critical in my opinion. Reading the rule book does not make you qualified to be able to teach it to others, and be able to adequately explain the "what is the person does this...." type of answers.. nor does it give the RO. the skills to make the right decision. as you know IPSC has a LOT of rules, many of which require the RO to make his/her own decision. you can't get that from being an RO for a short period of time. it's about providing a minimum level of standards that people will expect when they take the BB course.. they have a right to know that their instructor is qualified to teach it. Not that he just is a good speaker, but has the experience to back it up.

would you want your kids to take a driving course from someone who just got their own license???? they may be able to dictate the rules of the road, but there is more to is then just knowing the rules. (The rules of the road do noe tell you how to handle the vehicle if you run one side on the gravel, and one on the road.. and start to get pulled in..) Same as in IPSC. there are rules. and there all the other things you should know to be safe.
 
ckc123 maybe you should get some history be for you jump to conclusions.

I am not saying anybody should become a B/B instructor with out a great deal of experience. That is not my point at all.

My problem is why is the ONLY experience you need to be an instructor is being a R/O for one year. what about years of match experience that must not count at all.

example : I had a R/O try DQing me early this year for some thing he thought was in the rule book. To this R/O's credit he is a very experienced and hardworking R/O. He just made a mistake. Fine.

My point once again is R/Oing should not be the only requirement for being a B/B instructor
 
Actually your point was
My point for this is what if you have no desire to become a R/O and you just want to help people get into this sport.
Click to expand...
The answer is still the same.

The point you made initially was someone wanting to be an instructor with without being an R/O or the R/O experience..

are you trying to say that you think there should be a minimum of MORE then just being an R/O for one year?? (which would also infer being a shooter for 2 years minimum).. this is what I suspect you are trying to say in your example.. you are unclear as to what you are trying to discuss..
 
ckc123 what Answer?

Let me make my point this way so you can under stand it.

You need to be a R/O for one year ( A shooter for 2 years ) to be a B/B instructor.
So what they are saying if you are a R/O for one year and do nothing but shoot and work local matches you would have more experience and better qualified than say a person that has been shooting for five years with. Let say this person with 5 year of experience has shoot matches all over north America like 5 nationals a dozen area matches 5 provincials 3 level 3 countless level 2. lets also say this person reaches the highest class you can reach in Canada , but he or She is not qualified because he is not a R/O.

Are you seeing the point now. May be there should another criteria than just R/O. may be match experience.
 
MOBILE 1 said:
Are you seeing the point now. May be there should another criteria than just R/O. may be match experience.
Click to expand...

I see your point. but it doesn't change the logic.. being a shooter does not give you the background to cover BOTH aspects of IPSC which is being the shooter, and being the R/O. most shooters are set in certain "ways" and they don't change those.. you are limited to the variation of what you learn.. being an R.O. you get many different competitors who do things differently, and you get the experience from those to know the different situations..

would you feel the instructor who has only shoot production, and shot with the same equipment, in the same logic for stages, would have a broad enough back ground to teach a BB.. ?? most people would see a technique, and say.. "I don't like that" and never do it. and never be directly involved with others who do. BUT knowing all of those situations and being able to teach them is what's important..

Good example.. we have a gentlemen in our club who has bad knees, so he never kneels or goes prone.. he can shoot for 20 years, be a GM shooter, but is not experienced enough on how to teach others to shoot prone/kneeling. same thing with being a shooter vs and RO.
 
MOBILE 1 said:
ckc123 maybe you should get some history be for you jump to conclusions.

I am not saying anybody should become a B/B instructor with out a great deal of experience. That is not my point at all.

My problem is why is the ONLY experience you need to be an instructor is being a R/O for one year. what about years of match experience that must not count at all.

example : I had a R/O try DQing me early this year for some thing he thought was in the rule book. To this R/O's credit he is a very experienced and hardworking R/O. He just made a mistake. Fine.

My point once again is R/Oing should not be the only requirement for being a B/B instructor
Click to expand...

Actually it's not the only experience you need...but it is a pre-req. There is wisdom in that decision...

Obvioulsy other things are of benefit...but being current on the rules is important...and as you;ve demonstrated...even the RO's can lag behind.

Cheers
 
ckc123 said:
I see your point. but it doesn't change the logic.. being a shooter does not give you the background to cover BOTH aspects of IPSC which is being the shooter, and being the R/O. most shooters are set in certain "ways" and they don't change those.. you are limited to the variation of what you learn.. being an R.O. you get many different competitors who do things differently, and you get the experience from those to know the different situations..

would you feel the instructor who has only shoot production, and shot with the same equipment, in the same logic for stages, would have a broad enough back ground to teach a BB.. ?? most people would see a technique, and say.. "I don't like that" and never do it. and never be directly involved with others who do. BUT knowing all of those situations and being able to teach them is what's important..

Good example.. we have a gentlemen in our club who has bad knees, so he never kneels or goes prone.. he can shoot for 20 years, be a GM shooter, but is not experienced enough on how to teach others to shoot prone/kneeling. same thing with being a shooter vs and RO.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is IF Rob Letham moved to Canada He could not be a b/b instructor because he is not a R/O.

This is the reason this sport is suffering the way it is. No body wants to look at change it must stay the same.
 
I took my BB last week-end and I think being a RO need to be a condition to be BB instructor.

We did 4-5 hours of theorical/rules, 1.5 day of pratical.
What is the #1 task of a BB instructor? Look at the gun direction and trigger finger. That's it. It's the same job as a RO.

My BB instructor is Range Master, it was a very good course, 90% about security and being safe. Rules can be read after the course but being safe need to be looked at.
 
If your not an RO, if some BB student asks you a oddball rule question..would you know it?
 
^you would, but wouldnt this set a precendent where by some might end up as BB instructors who dont have a clue? Wouldnt this do more harm then good?

If you really want to do a BB course, maybe help somebody who is already running one?
 
BB instructor

Following this thread makes me think a lot of argument and no logic, typical for IPSC
(irrational people squabbling constantly).

Top shooters generally know the rule book much much better than any RO with only 1 year experience or more for that matter.

Top shooters know what is safe and what is not and just as importantly they know to teach the correct techniques to the new shooters on the BB course.

Top shooters seldom maintain RO status as they prefer to shoot the match to do as well as possible, RO ing the same match usually guarantees you will sewer the match.

So as a logical solution how about anyone who has been shooting for say 5 years(or so) has made it to M class and can pass the RO exam can be a BB instructor if they pass the BB course.

Oops, I forgot, this is IPSC, so we must throw out any new logical idea.

Mike
 
Ipsik said:
Following this thread makes me think a lot of argument and no logic, typical for IPSC
(irrational people squabbling constantly).

So as a logical solution how about anyone who has been shooting for say 5 years(or so) has made it to M class and can pass the RO exam can be a BB instructor if they pass the BB course.

Oops, I forgot, this is IPSC, so we must throw out any new logical idea.

Mike
Click to expand...

This suggestion has possibilities since it would only get you into the Black Badge instructor program. You would still have to complete all the "other" requirements to being a certified Instructor. ;)

A quick comment on experience, to be a certified RO all you need to do is earn 3 points (after the course etc). So if you work at 3 level 1 matches or a level 2 and a level 1 each year and you maintain your status. Now granted most RO and Instructors work far more than that (some end the season with 40 or 50 points!) but if I met the minimum requirement I could qualify (for the program) to teach the black badge course to new shooters.:confused:

Now can an experienced Master or Grand Master teach the rules to a class of new shooters? For the most part I would say yes. Also can a reasonable experienced RO teach the rules to a class of new shooters? Again I would say yes. What you have now is an opportunity to expand the black badge course to take advantage of both sides of the experience fields. :cool:
 
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