IPSC, safety or no safety on pistol

The Glock or the M&P would be good pistols to start shooting IPSC. I shot an M&P for several years. Both guns would be great for Production division in 9mm. The fact that they don't have a manual safety makes them easier to use but the triggers will not be as nice. Honestly because you're just starting out the trigger will not make that big of a difference. There's a lot of other stuff like technique that you can improve on first. Lots of guys out there are really fast and shoot factory guns like Glocks.
If you want to sample production and Standard you could get one in .40 but be warned that these plastic guns really kick in .40
Do talk to someone in your area who shoots. When I started there was no production division in the province so I bought a gun in .40 to shoot standard. Now all I shoot is production because enough guys shoot that division.
 
pauls said:
I have to question the advice that PapaHotel01 is giving.
Newbie with 7 posts.???

Not sure if you really know anything.
:)
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new name, he is a good shooter and his advice is worth listening to... but i think this post is missing a ;) at the end lol

I also agree with it and the only thing is add is if you dont want to shoot a 1911 (which makes you nuts btw) then buy a shadow and shoot production. shoot a year or two and then you will know enough and tried enough and made enough friends to buy double down and focus on the division/gun that really makes you smile
 
draftstone said:
Exactly! Thats why I am asking, I don't want to buy a gun which I won't be able to use and required to buy a second one :)
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No matter what i think you will still end up buying more than one gun. It ends up being an adiction. I dont know of anybody like you that tried to make an informed decision that ended up buying something different later because after you shoot for a while you figure out what you really like and what type of shooting you like to do.
 
toxic said:
The Glock or the M&P would be good pistols to start shooting IPSC. I shot an M&P for several years. Both guns would be great for Production division in 9mm. The fact that they don't have a manual safety makes them easier to use but the triggers will not be as nice. Honestly because you're just starting out the trigger will not make that big of a difference. There's a lot of other stuff like technique that you can improve on first. Lots of guys out there are really fast and shoot factory guns like Glocks.
If you want to sample production and Standard you could get one in .40 but be warned that these plastic guns really kick in .40
Do talk to someone in your area who shoots. When I started there was no production division in the province so I bought a gun in .40 to shoot standard. Now all I shoot is production because enough guys shoot that division.
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I agree with this. I shoot a m&p 40 in standard with an apex trigger. The m&p's are very reliable but definatly too light if you want to load it to major. I would suggest a cz shadow for production and a tactical sport for standard.
 
pauls said:
I have to question the advice that PapaHotel01 is giving.
Newbie with 7 posts.???

Not sure if you really know anything.
:)
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PapaHotel01 is one of the top "Open" shooters in the country. My advise is to follow his :)
If your long-term goal is to be seriously competitive in IPSC, you'll find yourself on the 1911 platform at some point. Some shooters stay in Production class forever, but if you get a taste for IPSC, you'll likely move to a higher division after a few seasons. Starting in the new Classic division puts you on the right path for Standard or Open in the future.
 
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maybe I used the wrong smilie face.
Need to develop my internet sarcasm/insult skillz.
Was just taking a jab at PH's new newbie status.
 
PapaHotel01 said:
Not sure how you can argue a 5lb trigger with no safety would be safer than a 5lb trigger with a safety....
And once you have gotten past being a newb, who wants to shoot a slug of a gun with a 5lb trigger?
Sure you can have fun in IPSC with one, but you're not racing until you are running a trigger that is capable of going below 2lbs. :D
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This sounds like something that a long time IPSC guy would post that has forgotten what it was like when he started out. You are also under the mistaken impression that EVERYONE secretly wants to get into the Space Race Gun scene.

Give the poor OP a break. Let him get a basic 9mm and learn first. By choosing 9mm he'll be able to buy a cheaper gun that is cheaper to shoot. By choosing a striker or DA/SA gun that has that longer first pull he'll have to learn proper grip and trigger discipline. That way he'll be able to shoot ANY handgun well.
 
Viper26 said:
PapaHotel01 is one of the top "Open" shooters in the country. My advise is to follow his :)
If your long-term goal is to be seriously competitive in IPSC, you'll find yourself on the 1911 platform at some point. Some shooters stay in Production class forever, but if you get a taste for IPSC, you'll likely move to a higher division after a few seasons...
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Not many realize that, but Production division is the only division that encourages true marksmanship. It penalizes hosers really bad... If you want to learn how to shoot you need to learn how to excel with Production gun.
 
BCRider said:
This sounds like something that a long time IPSC guy would post that has forgotten what it was like when he started out. You are also under the mistaken impression that EVERYONE secretly wants to get into the Space Race Gun scene.

Give the poor OP a break. Let him get a basic 9mm and learn first. By choosing 9mm he'll be able to buy a cheaper gun that is cheaper to shoot. By choosing a striker or DA/SA gun that has that longer first pull he'll have to learn proper grip and trigger discipline. That way he'll be able to shoot ANY handgun well.
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X2

This is the main point.

Practice the basics.
 
euxx said:
Not many realize that, but Production division is the only division that encourages true marksmanship. It penalizes hosers really bad... If you want to learn how to shoot you need to learn how to excel with Production gun.
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Well......despite what many may think about certain IPSC divisions (ahem...Open...), you can't really win in if you don't shoot the points. All things being equal, at the upper levels in any division it ALWAYS comes down to the points.

To the OP:
My advice is; as soon as you can, start hanging out at IPSC matches or league nights and asking a lot of questions. Ask people why they shoot what they shoot, what are the pluses and minuses, and what's necessary and what isn't. Most IPSC shooters are gear whores in varying degrees and will be only too happy to let you test-drive their guns and gear and explain in micro-detail why they made these specific choices. Take every opportunity to familiarize yourself as best you can with the different platforms available to you before you decide on a platform and/or division. With a large enough sample you will be able to boil your choices down to a very short list.

Since the question is on the table I'll offer my suggestion but know that I'm just another opinion, of many. So for what it's worth:
If you start out in Production Division with a CZ variant you will be well served. Glocks and M&P's are also fine but if at some point you want to really compete you will be swimming up hill with the heavier triggers. They are great guns, durable as hell and reliable, but any way you slice it an 8 lb trigger is going to be a lot harder to shoot fast accurately than a 2 lb trigger. It's just a fact. Also, if you start out in Classic Division with a 1911 variant (in 9mm) you will be well served. There are plenty of affordable choices out there. Leave Standard and Open for later consideration as those divisions are big money pits. Ask me how I know this....

Re. the safety: If your gun has an external safety in Standard, or Open Division it must be applied after the load and make ready command. If it is a Classic Division gun it will have external safeties by definition so they must be applied. If you are using an approved gun with external safeties in Production Division, the hammer must be double action for the first shot and an external safety will be redundant in this case so it is not required. Glocks and M&P's do not have external safeties and can play in Production, Standard and Open Divisions. 1911's can play in Standard, Open and Classic but not in Production due to the single action trigger.

All of the internet warriors on these forums can give you all the advice in the world and some of it may be very helpful depending on what it is and who it comes from, but if you don't try before you buy you are just asking to spend money in the wrong direction.

Good luck with your choice and welcome to the family.
 
revo is where its at, all you open/lim/prod shooters with your hicap 10 rnd asasult style clips just spray bullets at the targets untill you get a hit
 
something else to consider once you've tried a few guns and narrowed down the choices is the availablity and price of magazines and spare parts. every gun regardless of price or what super ninja commando team issues it will break when used for IPSC.
 
I would like to point out that the choice of firearm has a relatively small impact on score. Maurice and I both shoot a Tanfoglio Stock II in production. On a good day, I might shoot 70% of his score. His gun is no better than mine, they are the same, however he is able to complete stages more efficiently. So run whatever you like and have some fun. Whether it is the absolute best pistol available is a relatively minor detail.
 
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There has been alot of advise given to you here. I would make things really simple for yourself. Check with your local club, and find out if there are weekly shoopts. (Our club meets every Wednesday) bring a box of 9mm ammo and ask if you may try a few of the different guns available (our members are more than accomodating to new shooters). This will help you with a few things, you get to feel the guns (handguns are like shoes, you want them to fit well) and how they shoot. You will also get familiar with how the game is played, what equipment is required and start some awesome friendships.

At this point, you can make a more educated decision on what you want to purchase. I started shooting IPSC with an M&P9 Pro and am still using it and FOR ME it works fine. Many of the members I shoot with are using CZ 's and they work fabulously (you will find a large number of production competitors with a CZ in their holster)

I hope this helps
 
Just last month I made my first purchase for a production pistol, I went in to buy a Glock 17, and ended up buying a CZ75 Shadow. I liked the feel of it in my hands, and I thought the extra mass would be helpful for a new shooter. At the range I had a glock 17 and my CZ to shoot and I was very happy with my decision to go CZ, my friend with the glock is looking to buy a CZ now, he competed a bit last year in IPSC. :)
 
Madness said:
something else to consider once you've tried a few guns and narrowed down the choices is the availablity and price of magazines and spare parts. every gun regardless of price or what super ninja commando team issues it will break when used for IPSC.
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This is some VERY, VERY sage advice.
Great post, Mike.
 
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