IPSC Stage Design
- Thread starter arancio
- Start date
I've been working on something, but I am waiting to see what's going to happen this year with my G*dd**ned back. Accordingly, perhaps something in document form would be better?Rob, why don't you set up a course so that the new shooters and some of the guys who have been around a long time and never improve, can learn how to play the game better?For those who want to play better, Rob will work wonders with you. All it takes is time and money but it will be so well worth it!
I've also been messing around with the 3D program we use in animated film production (maya) to build stage templates from which I can put together scale mock-ups of real time stage fly-throughs. Currently I have the stage set-up from my last course done to scale and in real time. It's a 160 point stage shot in just over 18 seconds, so one could assume a faster or slower time depending on skill set. But it gives a pretty clear picture of exactly how the stage would look on the ground.
I'm uploading it now to Photobucket, but it's taking a while....
I'm not claiming to be the be all & end all with this statement but the worst stage designs are the ones from inside the box. If you think outside the box it makes stages seem new & more challenging to shoot for all levels of skill. Take a plane old stage & try to turn it insideout in your head while staying within the rules. Limit approach cut off the angles give them some movment & make them use that thing at the front of the slide. Just my opinion.
One problem is some people are creative and can have some good design ideas, others are good organizers and can run a good match, you rarely see both in the same person. Some of the best run matches I've been too have great stage designers working for a great organizer. We have been trying this at Sharon, I like designing and setting up stages but I'm not so great at organizing. Dom is really good at organizing and it seems to work out, our April match last year was done like this and it turned out well. The trick is getting a team together and everyone cooperating.
Be careful thinking too far outside the box, there are many examples of stages I have shot whee it might have seemed like a good idea....
Try to get some of your better shooters at your club to look over your design, they may see something you missed. A good example was one stage at theYriangle (or whatever it was called) where they had a popper, a really close full target and two disappearing drop turners, on the surface it looks like an ok stage, the problem was you could shoot three shots and potentially win it. If you look at our scores, three of us shot in the low 3 second range and had all our hits, ipsic, myself and relliott. Ipsik had almost all A's and s hit factor of 11, relliott dnd myself did not score quite as well and we were in the 7 and 8 HF range. If I had just shot the popper and the close target I would have been around 1.4 seconds for 3 shots and would have scored 15 points for a 10.7 HF. In other words I would have almost won it without even attempting shots at the drop turners making them irrelevant. At which point everyone on my squad would probably follow suit and so would the squads following. And a perfectly good stage is ruined. Of one of the drop turning targets had been non disappearing it would changed the whole stage. I've seen many other stages over the years where designers made things so overly complicated that it ruined some great ideas,
Be careful thinking too far outside the box, there are many examples of stages I have shot whee it might have seemed like a good idea....
Try to get some of your better shooters at your club to look over your design, they may see something you missed. A good example was one stage at theYriangle (or whatever it was called) where they had a popper, a really close full target and two disappearing drop turners, on the surface it looks like an ok stage, the problem was you could shoot three shots and potentially win it. If you look at our scores, three of us shot in the low 3 second range and had all our hits, ipsic, myself and relliott. Ipsik had almost all A's and s hit factor of 11, relliott dnd myself did not score quite as well and we were in the 7 and 8 HF range. If I had just shot the popper and the close target I would have been around 1.4 seconds for 3 shots and would have scored 15 points for a 10.7 HF. In other words I would have almost won it without even attempting shots at the drop turners making them irrelevant. At which point everyone on my squad would probably follow suit and so would the squads following. And a perfectly good stage is ruined. Of one of the drop turning targets had been non disappearing it would changed the whole stage. I've seen many other stages over the years where designers made things so overly complicated that it ruined some great ideas,
Ok, finally uploaded. I hope it opens for you.
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee1/relliott_photos/?action=view¤t=Long_course_02mov.mp4
Note: the intent of this template is to be able to build and debug any stage concept in 3D space before building it for real on the ground. I think this could be very useful for major match design sin that; so long as the range dimensions are known (even approximations) I can work out where the targets have to be to avoid shoot-throughs, 90 traps, target exposures, and any other unforeseen positional glitches. I can render it as a still with a dimensional grid applied as well.
Anyway, it's a work in progress. I'll be adding new props as I go and I want to eventually get some sort of hardware lighting and decent texturing in there rather than just default materials. But for now I think it works pretty well and proves out my intent.
http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee1/relliott_photos/?action=view¤t=Long_course_02mov.mp4
Note: the intent of this template is to be able to build and debug any stage concept in 3D space before building it for real on the ground. I think this could be very useful for major match design sin that; so long as the range dimensions are known (even approximations) I can work out where the targets have to be to avoid shoot-throughs, 90 traps, target exposures, and any other unforeseen positional glitches. I can render it as a still with a dimensional grid applied as well.
Anyway, it's a work in progress. I'll be adding new props as I go and I want to eventually get some sort of hardware lighting and decent texturing in there rather than just default materials. But for now I think it works pretty well and proves out my intent.
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That looks like a lot of fun Rob! Can't wait to shoot it someday!
One thing that can be said, is that a lot of clubs do not have the necessary equipment and props to pull off a number of stages of this nature! We run out of walls at EESA all the time, and it seems like we have a crap load of them!
One thing that can be said, is that a lot of clubs do not have the necessary equipment and props to pull off a number of stages of this nature! We run out of walls at EESA all the time, and it seems like we have a crap load of them!
Speed shoots don't need many walls
It's something to consider, when setting up a match if you try to set up lots of big round count stages, you're going to need lots of walls and props where speed shoots require none and mediums need very few.
It's something to consider, when setting up a match if you try to set up lots of big round count stages, you're going to need lots of walls and props where speed shoots require none and mediums need very few.
When we lost scenarios, it took a lot of imagination and fun out of the stages. Speed shoots can be fun but if you endlessly put up 3 or four targets stapled together at the same distance it does become boring.
Use some simple props, BBQ, Bed/mattress, table with playing cards, drink bottles, beer cases, mock ATM, etc.
Don't get stuck on how many targets to use or how to use them, a single target with a bill drill, 3 rounds per target on a couple of targets, or 1 round per target and 5 or 6 targets. At the North Americans in '92 we had two back to back stages, each had one target and only 2 rounds per stage, one was empty chamber start and one was a loaded start. Of course we had 30 stages on the Sharon club property for that match so you can get away with more variety. And out of those 30 stages 22 would have qualified as speed shoots, a few had 10 rounds but there were no round count rules then. We had stages with grocery bags, beer cases, dog leashes holding up target arrays, wheelbarrows, coolers, a box with snakes covering your gun, a baby, a cash register, card table with cards, a bank machine and a helicopter (mock ups). Vary it up a bit, an all steel stage is fun or use some Virginia Count or Fixed time stages. Strong hand only while holding a bag of money while engaging 5 targets one round each on the small targets....wait, ignore that idea...I might use that...
Use some simple props, BBQ, Bed/mattress, table with playing cards, drink bottles, beer cases, mock ATM, etc.
Don't get stuck on how many targets to use or how to use them, a single target with a bill drill, 3 rounds per target on a couple of targets, or 1 round per target and 5 or 6 targets. At the North Americans in '92 we had two back to back stages, each had one target and only 2 rounds per stage, one was empty chamber start and one was a loaded start. Of course we had 30 stages on the Sharon club property for that match so you can get away with more variety. And out of those 30 stages 22 would have qualified as speed shoots, a few had 10 rounds but there were no round count rules then. We had stages with grocery bags, beer cases, dog leashes holding up target arrays, wheelbarrows, coolers, a box with snakes covering your gun, a baby, a cash register, card table with cards, a bank machine and a helicopter (mock ups). Vary it up a bit, an all steel stage is fun or use some Virginia Count or Fixed time stages. Strong hand only while holding a bag of money while engaging 5 targets one round each on the small targets....wait, ignore that idea...I might use that...
Craig, if you stir a bit of active targets (steel and/or movers) and some transition they won't be boring. After certain point it is just raw speed.
Even stage Pat talking about was fun to shoot. Though some people choose to shoot it a boring way and they won. So, we need to practice more for the next time.
Even stage Pat talking about was fun to shoot. Though some people choose to shoot it a boring way and they won. So, we need to practice more for the next time.
Oh yeah, I forgot about those. Don't get me started on stacking targets on a single target stand...
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Who lost senarios?
I know I never lost senarios. They are right where I left them.......in my head helping me with stage design.
I am just SUPER creative with the Stage names to hide the fact.
Like "Fluffy Happy Bunnies" from last year which started out as "ATM Gang attack " in my mind.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Is there a specific "rule" that can be quoted that makes senarios "illegal" within the rules?
I like that the bunnies were happy.
I'm also particularly fond of stage names that can have double meanings like for instance, "Clearing the room," "Log jam," "Funnel of Death" or perhaps even "We're going to need a bigger boat." Taken one way any of these could certainly describe a plausible IPSC scenario, but looked at from another angle it might also mean our designer is fixated on an unpleasant intestinal issue.
It's always handy to have a backup plan (sorry) don't you think?
