IPSC Standard Class kit discussion

NRA4Life

NRA4Life

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I'm not new to practical shooting; but, I've never participated in IPSC competition before, although, I want to get into the sport seriously... So, I'm looking for advice about good reliable competitive equipment starting with gun and holster... What are the most popular brands and models, and which of those are the best value for Standard Class competition. Please title your posts with the equipment class(es) you're commenting on.

GUN: Aside from the 1911 and BHP, are there any other competitive weapon platforms worth considering? Which manufacturers are best value? What factors should drive the selection process {capability to shoot 'Major', parts availability, accuracy, reliability, cost}? What about H&K P7-type pistols? or .40 BHP 'Practical'?

HOLSTER: Leather or synthetic? Dropped, canted, purpose-built? What about Blade-Tech, vs. more conventional Bianchi/FrontLine service models?

BELT: I have a Liger synthetic... Is that worth using? What other products should I consider?

POUCHES: Presumably they should all be the same, and permit me to carry up to 50 rounds... Same questions as for Holster...

MAGAZINES: I know that they're not all created equal, and that they are consumable... What features really matter, and does any one after-market producer have a clearly superior product (for competition)? Which suppliers have the best deals?

HEARING PROTECTION: EAR and Peltor seem to have cornered the market; but, what NRR 19-33dB should I be looking for in a conventional vs. electronic product? Which models accommodate eye-glasses best (without pain)?

SAFETY GLASSES: I have Gargoyles already. Which brands are more optically correct, or does this really matter? Which designs accommodate ear-cups best (without pain)?

MISCELLANEOUS: Range-bags, hats, shoes, gloves, etc. Suggestions are welcome...

RE-LOADING I know practically everyone competitive does it... What're the most economical and effective brands of equipment, bullets, brass, primers, powder, etc.? How close to the Class-qualification thresholds should you load for, given the typical chronographic equipment used at events? Heavy bullet & lower velocity or Light bullet and higher velocity?

BUDGET How much cash am I likely to pi$$-away in a typical season, paying for maintenance, ammunition, entry-fees, association fees, etc.
 
It all comes down to personal pref
my Standard setup
STI edge with STI and SVI mags dawson base pads, bolen and dawson followers
CR speed belt and pouches
Bladetech holster with SR loop was using a ghost, switched last year
range bag is a Maxpedition back pack
ears, slim line headphones
budget? whats that?
eyes, Oakley M-frames
shoes,Under Armour hammer mids
jersey, Techwear
press, dillon 650
 
You're asking for too much info in one bite, but all valid. You will find some of the answers on a blog I started at www.ipscismysport.########.com. I try to update it often, and as I acquire new knowledge in the sport. Maybe it will help.
 
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This year so far I have paid 1063 bucks for matches and registration fees only. Some of the matches are pre-paid and pretty match most of the major matches are paid, only Area 8 left and maybe Area 2.
This is an expensive sport.
To start I would recommend, right equipment first time with good quality pistol, if Standard/Limited shooting I will go with STI/SVI type, you can get them used one and they still have lots of life. Holster, I like my DAA, IMO it is the best holster and I was using CR Speed before.
Then find someone who can show you basics. Spend more time practicing then shooting matches. Go to Level II matches, they are not that expensive and are sometimes in pair with L III.
For me, after getting right equipment most important is practice and spending money on bullets, primers and powder. Cases you re-use after practice.
 
If you are looking to be competitive in Standard, the hicap frames like STI, Caspian or Para are the way to go, next down the list would be the striker fired guns like Glock 35 or S&W M&P Pro in .40. As much as I like the Hipower and the P7 is an interesting gun, neither is all that competitive. If you want fire an email off to Bruce Gray as he does custom work on the P7 and could give you the run down on using and modifying them for competition, here is an Open P7 he built; http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84022&st=0
And Bill Laughridge at Cylinder and Slide is probably one of the best to tell you about the Hipower.
Otherwise if you are more interested in a duty type firearm look at the Glock or Smith M&P and run it in Production
For reloading, Dillon is the only way to go for volume, quality ammo. I've been using a Dilon 550 for the better part of 20 year in this sport. It's been rebuilt a couple of time and upgraded with most of the 550B parts and their service and customer support is second to none.
 
Let's talk guns...

PH Racing said:
If you are looking to be competitive in Standard, the hicap frames like STI, Caspian or Para are the way to go, next down the list would be the striker fired guns like Glock 35 or S&W M&P Pro in .40. As much as I like the Hipower and the P7 is an interesting gun, neither is all that competitive. If you want fire an email off to Bruce Gray as he does custom work on the P7 and could give you the run down on using and modifying them for competition, here is an Open P7 he built; http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84022&st=0
And Bill Laughridge at Cylinder and Slide is probably one of the best to tell you about the Hipower.
Otherwise if you are more interested in a duty type firearm look at the Glock or Smith M&P and run it in Production
For reloading, Dillon is the only way to go for volume, quality ammo. I've been using a Dilon 550 for the better part of 20 year in this sport. It's been rebuilt a couple of time and upgraded with most of the 550B parts and their service and customer support is second to none.
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Thanks, man! That Open P7-M13 Bruce Gray built is Out Of This World! I will have to track him down! I don't see myself shooting Open Division for a while; but, I'm sure he has some sage advice about the platform.

What about the BHP makes it uncompetitive in your opinion? I know about Cylinder & Slide, and they seem to have a lot of so-called drop-in kits for competition, especially for the BHP. I used to own an Inglis BHP (recently sold) and it fit my hands very well... I really like the idea of the .40 "Practical" with standard (trigger, mag-well, slide-lock, etc) and SFS upgrades (provided they're all legal for competition).

Of the high-cap 1911s I've played with, I find them a bit fat in my hands; although I might consider a BUL in 9mm/.40---any opinions you have about that platform would be welcome as well... I still like the idea of PARA, even if they're not Made in Canada anymore :(

S&W M&P just seem like Glock knock-offs to me---both of which have lost their appeal to me since their mags have to run half-empty up here. Why use a high-cap frame if you can't fill it? It just seems wasteful. :-/

RELOADING Is it even feasible to run 9mm hot enough to shoot Major? What gun would you recommend to house such hot loads? I've heard that a .40 BHP converted to 9mm might be able to handle it...
 
Would 170mm *single-stack* magazines be legal for Standard Division?

Just a silly question; but, my hands are not that big... I wonder how far a 10-round single-stack magazine would protrude from the bottom of the grip-frame of an otherwise stock single-stack .40/.45 and if 10-rounds could be housed single-stack under 170mm... Does anybody make them already, or would they have to be custom fabricated?
 
Don't confuse IPSC rules with USPSA rules.

In IPSC (therefore, Canada) Standard Division guns must fit in the "box" with magazine inserted. 10 round single stack .45 ACP mags will not fit. 9 round single stack .40 S&W mags just fit.
 
You're not going to run major 9 in Standard division, has to be .40 or bigger. 9mm major is only for Open. 170 mags are out, the gun with mag has to fit in a box which is sized to fit a 1911 with a magwell but that's about it.
We run the hi cap frames with low cap mags because they are faster to reload, a tapered mag with a big hole to go into is much faster and more forgiving.
With a BHP you are limited to having a lot of custom work done that is more difficult to do than on other platforms...lots of welding...mag well has to be welded on, beavertail would have to be fabricated and welded to avoid hammer bite. The trigger will never be as good as a custom 1911 and the overall gun tends to be a bit light though the low bore line should help with muzzle flip. Generally there are a lot less gunsmiths who will work on unusual projects like the BHP or H&K's. Glocks, M&P's and CZ's are far more popular and easier to get parts and gunsmiths to work on them.
 
My hands are relatively small also. The SVI and STI (and Glock for that matter) all feel like I'm holding a brick and generally don't work well for me. Enter my new Tanfoglio Limited Custom II. Jumped into my hands the first time and feels like it was meant to be there. I shoot standard major in .40 ... As noted above, 9 will not make major in standard, only open. You need 170 pf in standard to make major, 160 in open.

As for powder/primers/etc for reloading, depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I load with my Hornady LNL AP and get consistent loads all the time. Another IPSC shooter here (same gun) gave me a perfect recipe for 40 and it feels really light while making major ... 200 gr .40 making about 870 fps = 174 pf ... Feels way less too .. But using Vita Vuori N320 powder, which is a bit more expensive than most other powders. I'm lucky enough to get a group buy through another IPSC Alberta member and I got it for $150 for a 2 kg jug last time which is a great price. Still more than a lot of people want to pay though.

As for gear ... CR speed belt, pouches and the Tanfoglio specific CR speed holster (all items including pistol and extra mags bought from Freedom Ventures) .. Eyes are Peltor tactical (foam lined) shooting glasses with interchangeable lenses ... Ears are Pro Ears (electronic is the way to go IMO) ... Just got some Oakley tactical boots and will try them out next match. Also have a CED 7000 timer for practicing on my own and just bought a CED chrono to verify loads are getting proper velocity. Also bought a few spare parts for the gun (extractor, firing pin, hammer, springs, etc) just in case something decides to go south at an inopportune moment. The Tanfoglio was not a cheap gun by any means but it is a gorgeous firearm.

The pistol:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=578843

Budget is non-existent for me. I buy guns and gun related gear and my wife buys shoes. She doesn't complain about the guns and gear, I don't complain about the shoes. Oh and for her birthday she asked for a new gun so I suppose I can get her one. LoL. Don't forget to factor in travel expenses and (as noted above) registration fees. Last weekend going to the match - just in travel (fuel, food, hotel, etc) was about $400 for me. Would have been more but I was able to split the costs by travelling with 2 other shooters.

Hope all that helps.
 
That pistol looks better than a booth-bunny at a car-show! ;-D

spideysteve said:
My hands are relatively small also. The SVI and STI (and Glock for that matter) all feel like I'm holding a brick and generally don't work well for me. Enter my new Tanfoglio Limited Custom II. Jumped into my hands the first time and feels like it was meant to be there. I shoot standard major in .40 ... As noted above, 9 will not make major in standard, only open. You need 170 pf in standard to make major, 160 in open.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion! Your Tangfoglio looks amazing! Is the reason for 9mm not making 170pf that the case is too small/weak, or that the guns built to discharge them can't take the pressure?

spideysteve said:
As for powder/primers/etc for reloading, depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I load with my Hornady LNL AP and get consistent loads all the time. Another IPSC shooter here (same gun) gave me a perfect recipe for 40 and it feels really light while making major ... 200 gr .40 making about 870 fps = 174 pf ... Feels way less too .. But using Vita Vuori N320 powder, which is a bit more expensive than most other powders. I'm lucky enough to get a group buy through another IPSC Alberta member and I got it for $150 for a 2 kg jug last time which is a great price. Still more than a lot of people want to pay though.
Click to expand...

I'll probably be begging for the .40 recipe in short order ;-)

Cheers!
 
GUN and ammo

PH Racing said:
You're not going to run major 9 in Standard division, has to be .40 or bigger. 9mm major is only for Open. 170 mags are out, the gun with mag has to fit in a box which is sized to fit a 1911 with a magwell but that's about it.
We run the hi cap frames with low cap mags because they are faster to reload, a tapered mag with a big hole to go into is much faster and more forgiving.
Click to expand...

A-ha! Is there a reason nobody shoots .357 SIG... Is the brass too expensive?

PH Racing said:
With a BHP you are limited to having a lot of custom work done that is more difficult to do than on other platforms...lots of welding...mag well has to be welded on, beavertail would have to be fabricated and welded to avoid hammer bite. The trigger will never be as good as a custom 1911 and the overall gun tends to be a bit light though the low bore line should help with muzzle flip. Generally there are a lot less gunsmiths who will work on unusual projects like the BHP or H&K's. Glocks, M&P's and CZ's are far more popular and easier to get parts and gunsmiths to work on them.
Click to expand...

Hmm... It sounds like you seriously considered a BHP at one time, is that true? I never got hammer-bite from my old BHP---although I've never fired a .40 version either. Cylinder & Slide seems to be the go-to shop for BHP... Are there any comparable [with the BHP] 'smiths in Canada (to save the red-tape)?
 
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NRA4Life said:
A-ha! Is there a reason nobody shoots .357 SIG... Is the brass too expensive?
Click to expand...

357 Sig has only been approved in SD for a short time. Therefore most people already had time and money in a .40 S&W set-up. I have shot my stock Glock 31 in SD a couple of times. I am now modifying it a little. Will it be as good as a STI/SVI/SPS/ any of the other 2011 guns probably not, do I care No. I shoot against myself more then anyone else. Now that I have a IPSC box and when I get the Glock 31 finished I am going to make my Dammed Norinco NP 28 in .45ACP fit the box. Why because I can.
 
Try to go to a match and look at the different gear/guns the guys have there.

You don't have to re-invente the wheel, usually people are using what works so just take a look !

SB
 
Guilty as charged!

Wendell said:
So you want to be a raging 3 gunner

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2yraLcdcms>
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ROFLMFAO!!!

I suppose it boils down to whether I want to 'compete' (for the trophies) or just 'challenge myself' to shoot as best I can with 'inferior' equipment. :yingyang:

To be honest, I just want to shoot well, and the equipment-race can hang.

Thanks for helping me realize that, Wendell!
 
[YouTube]CbnMws6973k[/YouTube]

I have coffee running out my nose and I was laughing so hard I think my hart stopped.
 
I now realize, I just want to play the game, and I don't have enough money to blow on 'competitive' equipment that I would actually enjoy shooting.

So, what do I do now? I suppose that leaves me to buy equipment that I like, and play purely for my own enjoyment.
 
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