Iron Sight vs. Scope

[firemachine69]

Your girlfriend likes to shoot. You have a winner right there.

Ahhhh.... a man after my own heart! Well, actually, the tightest rifles on the face of the earth are ironsighted, they're the ones used in the Olympic Games, and should you want to drop $5000 or more out of the gate, you can have one. There's a number of good manufacturers but the one below is representative

But if you want a very accurate ironsighted rifle at a more reasonable price, I'd suggest the Savage mark II-FVT. It comes with proper aperture sights. I've owned one for about a year and a half, and it's been very good value for my money. I'll probably replace the stock to one more suited to me, but that's not unusual.

P.S. I don't agree with the ruger 10/22 idea. My gf has one, and I was disappointed with the rifle's accuracy. It was ok up to 25 yards but went all to hell at the 50 yard line. She likes it, but she's a more casual plinker, liking to knock pop cans around and whatnot.

I tried my buddy Nonus's target model and it's a nice rifle, but was merely satisfactory in the accuracy department and substantially more pricey than the FVT, and still has issues with feeding some brands of normal .22 fodder. We hadn't tried it with proper .22 match rimfire ammo, but I'd expect feeding issues to worsen with close tolerance match ammo.

 

[DATAM]

A good scope is a definate bonus as you get older. I can still use iron sights but would be lying if I said my eyesight was good enough for competition. I have a scope on my AIA model 10 in 7.62 Nato. Its a beauty and it will do whatever I need it too. My model 19NRA Savage Anschutz in .22 LR I can shoot with iron sights.

 

[Donster 125]

ok guys, thanks for the info. i think ill stick with scope. it appeals to me more and it seems that it is not detrimental to learn with a scope over iron sights. thanks for all your great responses guys.

 

[Chad Ferriss]

Open sights or scope?

It is best to learn with open sights first, than go to a scope! I prefer a scope personally over open sights but that is only after I learned to shoot with open sights .....always learn the basics first! Just like your first shotgun, learn with a single shot first! It teaches you to take your time with your shot, choose your shot wisely, than once you get it figured out, move to a pump or semi!

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

ok guys, thanks for the info. i think ill stick with scope. it appeals to me more and it seems that it is not detrimental to learn with a scope over iron sights. thanks for all your great responses guys.

I wish you all the best, and I personally agree with you, but remember that the popularity of an opinion, isn't proof of it's veracity.

 

[Donster 125]

What scope would you all recommend for a Ruger 10/22? It is a semi auto .22LR rifle with a 16" heavy barrel and comes with a bipod. I dont even know what magnification to get for a .22LR rifle. I only plan on target shooting with this gun if that helps anyone.

 

[Iron Sighted]

I'm having a hard time telling myself not to buy that BTVS for the exact same reason, I want to make myself learn with iron sights and that gun is not really compatible with them, but I want it soooo bad. I'm buying an M14 as well and plan on keeping that iron sighted for awhile, so maybe I can make do that way, but inside I think I'm still trying to justify that BTVS(in fact I know I am) The 10/22's are cool but nowhere near as accurate from what I gather, so I am still looking through the Savage .22lr line up trying to decide what to get. The FSS is appealing to me as well, though not bull barreled and the stock is much uglier, I hear it is still quite accurate and I could mount a scope on it down the road if I choose to. This thread has fueled my .22 hunger again, I'm off to go look and compare some more online. Good luck with your decision.

 

[AManWithAGun]

You gotta try both iron sight and scope, to see which you like more. Personally I find iron sight more fun to shoot, but if you're shooting at 200+ meters, you probably have to use a scope, unless you have really, really good eyesight.

With scopes, you should try a regular scope and a long eye-relief scope, the latter let you zoom in without blocking your field of view too much, a lot better than regular scope in my opinion.

 

[skeetgunner]

What scope would you all recommend for a Ruger 10/22?

My default recommendation for anyone starting out with a scope is the Bushnell Sportsman 3-9x32AO with target turrets. At well under $150 (with tip-off rings) its a great starter scope. Good glass, adjustable objective from 7yrd-infinity, ample adjustment range for the .22RF and resettable target turrets that can be adjusted by hand.

Yes, there better, more expensive scopes, but very few of that quality and features at that price point. Bushnell understands kids can't afford $4,000 scopes on their plinking guns.

 

[thebigslide]

What scope would you all recommend for a Ruger 10/22? It is a semi auto .22LR rifle with a 16" heavy barrel and comes with a bipod. I dont even know what magnification to get for a .22LR rifle. I only plan on target shooting with this gun if that helps anyone.

For the purposes of learning how to shoot, please don't get a rifle with a bipod. You won't learn to hold a rifle properly. If you do get it, at least take it off.

Get a cheap, low power bushnell scope with a 40mm objective for your 10/22. At 25 yards, 1-2 power is good for learning to shoot. You should practise at that range until your can empty your magazine into a group the size of a quarter. It will seem like a small target at first! That's the point.

At longer ranges, windage and elevation come into play, so you should know how to get a good group before you introduce those variables.

 

[Gun Plumber]

May I interject? With all due respect (I am sincere), I have seen plenty of evidence to show that learning with iron sights is far superior to learning with optics. I (and a lot of my generation) learned young with iron sights. I have been in the Army as a shooter and small arms coach for over two decades and learned on the FN C1A1 then the C7. Shooting with iron sights requires you to focus alternately on three different plains (target/front sight/rear sight). Both have very good peep sights and were brilliant. When we went to the scoped version of the C7 it took about a day to retrain four relays of firers to shoot with a scope as we just got them to focus on the target and the reticle. Recently when people have had to shoot the carbine w/o a scope they were terrible and it took ages to get them shooting up to snuf. If you are serious take smitty23's advice and go simple. Get iron sights on a good inexpensive rifle and invest in trigger time. Bolt guns will require you to re-establish your shooting platform regardless of your pos'n for each shot and you will improve vastly with a little practice. Fire three shot groups and only adjust when you are consistant. ta-da...you can shoot! Have fun and be safe.

 

[Donster 125]

May I interject? With all due respect (I am sincere), I have seen plenty of evidence to show that learning with iron sights is far superior to learning with optics. I (and a lot of my generation) learned young with iron sights. I have been in the Army as a shooter and small arms coach for over two decades and learned on the FN C1A1 then the C7. Shooting with iron sights requires you to focus alternately on three different plains (target/front sight/rear sight). Both have very good peep sights and were brilliant. When we went to the scoped version of the C7 it took about a day to retrain four relays of firers to shoot with a scope as we just got them to focus on the target and the reticle. Recently when people have had to shoot the carbine w/o a scope they were terrible and it took ages to get them shooting up to snuf. If you are serious take smitty23's advice and go simple. Get iron sights on a good inexpensive rifle and invest in trigger time. Bolt guns will require you to re-establish your shooting platform regardless of your pos'n for each shot and you will improve vastly with a little practice. Fire three shot groups and only adjust when you are consistant. ta-da...you can shoot! Have fun and be safe.

here is a stupid question. is shooting with iron sights generic across the board? by that i mean, i already shoot regularly with pistols and their iron sights. would this not instill iron sight practice? or is shooting a rifle with iron sights that much of a difference? my biggest problem is that i find that i am not precise enough with iron sights the .22 i was shooting the other day. I find it hard to phsically see the target (read: the black bullseye). Furthermore, my earprotection kept interfering with my shooting because of the stock.

your thoughts? recommendations?

 

[Shalimar]

May I interject? With all due respect (I am sincere), I have seen plenty of evidence to show that learning with iron sights is far superior to learning with optics. I (and a lot of my generation) learned young with iron sights. I have been in the Army as a shooter and small arms coach for over two decades and learned on the FN C1A1 then the C7. Shooting with iron sights requires you to focus alternately on three different plains (target/front sight/rear sight). Both have very good peep sights and were brilliant. When we went to the scoped version of the C7 it took about a day to retrain four relays of firers to shoot with a scope as we just got them to focus on the target and the reticle. Recently when people have had to shoot the carbine w/o a scope they were terrible and it took ages to get them shooting up to snuf. If you are serious take smitty23's advice and go simple. Get iron sights on a good inexpensive rifle and invest in trigger time. Bolt guns will require you to re-establish your shooting platform regardless of your pos'n for each shot and you will improve vastly with a little practice. Fire three shot groups and only adjust when you are consistant. ta-da...you can shoot! Have fun and be safe.

Now my exp in the Mil was not as extensive etc I'd bet.. but I was trained on both scope and non-scope as well as much more training with side arms. (I'm sure other positions within the Mil did get more rifle training though that my own)

I say learn both.. it sure won't hurt you in the end.

 

[thebigslide]

here is a stupid question. is shooting with iron sights generic across the board?

Nope.

is shooting a rifle with iron sights that much of a difference?

Yes. Totally. In general, shooting a handgun is more like pointing.

my biggest problem is that i find that i am not precise enough with iron sights the .22 i was shooting the other day.

That's what you should practise for Many .22s come with poor iron sights that are difficult to shoot accurately. You want space around the front sight post to be able to line it up consistently. You also want a narrow front sight post so you can line it up on your target without covering the target completely. Start at 25 yards max. When you can get a 2" group there, move back. You need to learn the rifle (and the stock) and develop some muscle memory before you will get any consistency. This goes for scopes outside their parallax range as well.

I find it hard to phsically see the target (read: the black bullseye).

It sounds like your eye is focusing on the wrong plane. This will come with practise. Try to focus on only the target and then focus back on the front post to see if it's lined up in the notch. Then back on target and breathe and fire. Using a blinder or masking tape on the non-dominant eye of a pair of shooting glasses may help.

Furthermore, my earprotection kept interfering with my shooting because of the stock.

This is strange. I've never had that problem. Are you rolling your head to the right? It could be a fitment issue - like if you were shooting a youth-sized rifle and had to scrunch up on the barrel. That could explain consistency problems too since you've no hope of getting comfortable if your ear defenders are getting in the way. In any case, an aperature sight is set higher (on the receiver vs the barrel) and will help this.

 

[Donster 125]

Sorry for reviving a dead thread, but i just had a quick question about the Savage MK 2 BTVSS .22LR

Someone told me that this is accurate out to 200 yards. Is that true? Is there a better gun out there than this? Last i heard, this gun could have a bipod mounted to it. Is that still the case?

I ask because i want to start bench shooting, and i plan on doing a lot of practice. I want to become very good at long range, precision shooting.

I will of course move up to a bigger caliber down the road, but the gun i want (re: Mauser M03 Match Extreme Variant) is very expensive.

Lastly, what scope would you all recommend? I was told the Bushnell Trophy series is excellent. Is there a better option out there?

Thanks!

 

[calalta]

Someone told me that this is accurate out to 200 yards. Is that true?

Thanks!

No, you will see posts where guys shoot the eye out of a gopher at 200 yds but look up a rimfire drop chart online and you will see that a std. velocity .22LR is about 5 feet low at 200 yds.
A .17hmr is far better for longer distances but will be much more expensive to shoot.
Start with a non-semi .22 (iron sights or scope) and learn to shoot it 100 yds. and in. Experiment with different ammo and have fun.

 

[Donster 125]

Start with a non-semi .22 (iron sights or scope) and learn to shoot it 100 yds. and in. Experiment with different ammo and have fun.

Thanks! I will buy the rifle pictured and start shooting within 100 yards

 

[rral22]

Put a scope on it. There is no more accurate sighting method for shooting a rifle than a decent scope. A gun is only as good as its sights. Iron sights are fun, and even useful in a very few circumstances, but a good, properly mounted scope of the appropriate power is the very best and fastest sight with which to make accurate shots. The whole point of the rifle you have selected is accuracy.

 

[stevebc]

Furthermore, my earprotection kept interfering with my shooting because of the stock.

I found this was an issue too. Solution- buy ones made for shooting. These have a slimmer profile on the bottom of the ear cup so you can get closer. Peltor makes several kinds, often they're re-branded with other names. I bought a cheap set of non-electronic "Browning" brand ones that work just fine.

 

[Donster 125]

i have a question about ranges in my area (GTA). Where is the proper forum to post my question?