Iron Sights on Winchester 1892 357 Trapper

[peterbing]

About a year ago, I had asked about how to store a takedown lever action and got some great advice on CGN, so hoping to get some here again.

I've finally had the chance to shoot my Winchester 1892 357 Deluxe Trapper Takedown (Miroku) and it's been a lot of fun... but I'm finding my accuracy to be farther from what I had envisioned when I bought the rifle. On the forums everywhere, I keep reading about some guy who will shoot sub MOA with iron sights and maybe a bullet through a thumb tack every single time from 100 yards away... and I didn't expect that, but my results were pretty bad:

1) Factory Buckhorn Iron Sight - sitting at a bench, indoors. No bags for support -- At 25y, I'm finding it to be 4-6" spread if I'm trying to shoot groups.
2) Upgraded to Marble Arms round bullseye rear sight - same.. maybe just a little less.. but still 4" spread and unreliable

Now I have a tang mounted Marble arms improved peep sight that I'll be trying next.. but I'm not expecting it to make much of a difference. I've tried different types of ammo and tried 38 special vs 357 mag. My questions are:

1) Seriously - how accurate is it supposed to be without real support?
2) Assuming it's me and not the gun, should I just sell this thing and move on?
3) Do people actually use this thing to go hunting? Seems like a recipe for disaster given the variable impact point

For context, I'm used to shooting 22LR at 1 MOA at 50y through a 6-24x50 scope. So yeah.. hoping to get some opinions or ideas on how I can improve without just locking the rifle in a sled.

Thanks!

 

[iron cat]

One of the popular pieces advice to shooting with irons is to concentrate on the front sight and let the target and rear sight be fuzzy .
What I do is change my focus from the front sight to the target and back, but the rear sight is always fuzzy.
Too small a rear aperture is nor nearly as good as too larger a rear aperture. For a hunting rifle I take the insert right out .
Cat

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Drill, tap & fit an XS ghost ring onto the rear of the receiver which gives a much longer sight radius & better sight picture on short model 92's.
My .357 Rossi ranch hand build with 12" tube had very near the same sight radius as me 20" Rossi 454 Casull with the barrel mounted open sight.
Did the same with me Rossi RH in 45 Colt.

Us folks with older peepers definitely need the advantage of this setup.

 

[iron cat]

The biggest issues with those trappers is the short eight radius and the balance, they are not designed as a precision target rifle, for quick offhand shots however they do just fine .
Cat

 

[porpoise]

My miroku 357 wont shoot straight with factory ammo it shoots OK with copper plated subsonic handloads. If you think you are better than 4 to 6 inches at 25 yards you are probably right

 

[Canuck65]

First, don’t you know that everyone’s rifles shoot sub MOA? Lol.

Secondly, levers, and especially takedowns aren’t really built for pinpoint accuracy, but off bags at 25m you should absolutely expect better accuracy than 4-6” groups. Focus on the front sight, not the target, set your sights up so that you see the entire bull above the front sight blade, not behind the front blade. Make sure it’s not your trigger work or breathing that’s causing the issue, and if all else fails, try different ammo. At 25m though, I can’t see ammo selection being a big factor. You could try 38spl or lower velocity/heavier projectile ammo, like hard cast lead target loads.

Thirdly, what do you plan to hunt with a 38 pistol round? That’s not really a hunting rifle you have there, though some do use pistol calibers for hunting, it’s usually in the 44mag and up range. 38 would knock a deer down I suppose but there are better tools for that job.

One last thought: I have 3 miroku winchesters and they all shoot quite well. The other way to verify that it’s not you causing the problem would be to use a rear bag and keep your left hand and your cheek off the rifle completely when shooting. Just contact with your shoulder (same pressure every time) and your trigger hand (same grip every time). A lead sled or similar does the same thing - takes the shooter out of the equation. See what kind of groups that gives you.

Don’t give up on that rifle - it’s a fine gun and should be capable of good accuracy.

Good luck

 

[9.3mauser]

I suspect the problem is with the takedown system. When you consider that to remove a barrel from a normal action you need a special vise and wrench, yet the takedown barrel needs to be removable by hand, it's expecting a lot to think you're going to get the same level of accuracy. When a rifle is fired, the barrel flexes - vibrates - and accuracy comes from having the barrel flex in the same way every shot. If the barrel is not as tight as it can be seated into the receiver, the harmonics are affected and so is accuracy. The barrel could be in a slightly different position when the bullet leaves.

 

[peterbing]

Appreciate everyone's help and advice. I'll give it another shot at the range.. but don't be surprised if my rifle shows up on EE. I think my expectations may be too high!

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Appreciate everyone's help and advice. I'll give it another shot at the range.. but don't be surprised if my rifle shows up on EE. I think my expectations may be too high!

Make sure to mark it up a couple hundred over retail and include a comment about how wonderfully accurate it is ...standard operating procedure for the EE!

 

[peterbing]

After going back to the range.... I had some much better results:

1) Focus on front sight instead of target and let the target blur out -- helped a lot
2) Shoot off bags instead - helped a lot
3) Couldn't see well, so use a fluorescent target - helped a lot
4) Switch to a tang sight to improve sight radius - helped a lot

Results in the photo below for 25y. Bottom two groups are 2-3.5" wide with barrel mounted sight and bags. Top group of ~1" is tang sight. Not going to be a precision rifle but acceptable for fun. Thanks again for all the help and advice.