is .22 mag (or .17 hmr) an "antique" caliber?

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

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Hey guys,

I've been wondering for some time if either .22 wmr or .17 hmr are considered to be antique calibers for rifles or revolvers.

I'm guessing that .17 hmr might qualify, but probably not .22 wmr, since you might be able to slip a .22 lr shell in the chamber, even though you shouldn't do that.

The reason I wondered is because there are .22 lr antiques available in the US that could easily be reamed out or re-barreled or whatever. I doubt the revolvers would handle the extra pressure from the magnum rounds, and maybe the rifles wouldn't either, but at least it was a nice theory to puzzle over.
 
Antiques in Canada:

RIFLES 2. A rifle manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.
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HANDGUNS 6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.
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.22 WMR and .17 HMR would be too recent, AFAIK. :yingyang:

And yes, pressure-wise, either one would be a quick death for many old firearms....:eek:
 
You do see the odd one around, like those Vetterli-Beretta .22 training rifles, that might take the rechambering (I'm just guessing, I've never seen one in person). Of course, those are rare enough that you probably wouldn't want to do it anyway.

And, there's always pipsqueak cartridges like .22 CB that you could fool around with, although that wouldn't really accomplish much. I guess you could use a .22 CB revolver for target shooting in your basement or something.


.45 ACP was developed after 1898 (wasn't it?) and all thos .45 ACP Webleys are antiques. So does it matter when the cartridge was developed? I was under the impression it didn't.
 
TheCoachZed said:
You do see the odd one around, like those Vetterli-Beretta .22 training rifles, that might take the rechambering (I'm just guessing, I've never seen one in person). Of course, those are rare enough that you probably wouldn't want to do it anyway.

And, there's always pipsqueak cartridges like .22 CB that you could fool around with, although that wouldn't really accomplish much. I guess you could use a .22 CB revolver for target shooting in your basement or something.


.45 ACP was developed after 1898 (wasn't it?) and all thos .45 ACP Webleys are antiques. So does it matter when the cartridge was developed? I was under the impression it didn't.
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IIRC :), it depends on the original calibre :cool:, and how far you've changed-it over from that original calibre....:yingyang:
 
To me they do qualify because theyre not on the list. There is no way to dispute the .17hmr but somone might give you a hard time about the 22 magnum as it seems similar to .22lr. But the 22mag has a bigger case, .241" vs .225"
 
fiscus said:
To me they do qualify because theyre not on the list. There is no way to dispute the .17hmr but somone might give you a hard time about the 22 magnum as it seems similar to .22lr. But the 22mag has a bigger case, .241" vs .225"
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You are Correct :)
The fact there not pre 1898 Calibers makes no diffrence just look at all the pre 1898 Webleys converted to 45 Acp and they are Antique still.

I seen a Antique SAA colt converted to 22 Hornet but never to 17 Hmr not yet anyway.
 
.22wmr does not belong in most .22lr rifles.


Having said that, you technically can own it as an antique. AFAIK, .22wmr wasn't arount before 1898 (and that would be the judicial test if placed before the court, I'd gander), but I may be wrong...
 
a scoped, bipod wearong 17hmr single shot antique rifle is on my eventual need list. Reline any of the 22 lr martinis and your good to go.
 
david doyle said:
a scoped, bipod wearong 17hmr single shot antique rifle is on my eventual need list. Reline any of the 22 lr martinis and your good to go.
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I thought about that, too.

Relining the old single shots would be really cheap and easy, and you'd just have to ream the chamber out. You'd just have to find a rifle strong enough for the mangum round.

I'd be far more interested in a .22 mag revolver, though! :D I'm not too lazy to get my RPAL, I just don't see the point in owning a revolver I can't take into the woods!
 
have been thinking along the sane line as far a 22 mag is concerned.

there are some velodog revolvers that chamber a similar round but centerfire...

also any good machinist could sleeve and index chambers and barrel from any larger caliber to 22mag as long as the cylinder length was there...32 rimfire for instance ;)
 
The simplest way to do the revolver conversion would be to get a machinist to turn some "dummy cartridges" with holes in the middle. These holes would then be your new chamber - ream them out to .22 mag or .17 hmr or 5mm magnum or whatever. Somehow affix these dummy cartridges in your cylinder, and the only problems you are left with is lining up your firing pin to strike the primer, and making sure the new cylinder arrangement aligns properly with the barrel, which you would sleeve down to .22 wmr or .17 hmr.

I doubt it would be easy or cheap (or safe? :D), but it would be a way to convert a revolver in those impossible-to-find calibers into something you could buy at C-Tire. I'm sure that revolvers like those Dutch police pieces that were on here for sale last year would handle the rimfire pressures, and for people who don't want to spend their weekends cutting down .30-30 brass, it would be a decent solution. Maybe even a DIY, for the most part, although the ramifications of getting something wrong, especially the cylinder alignment, would be catastrophic (DISCLAIMER! NOBODY TRY THIS! :D)

A single-shot pistol or a double-barrel derringer would probably be a much easier and safer proposition.

I also suspect that CFC would give you much less hassle if you did it with a .17 hmr conversion, since some tech would chamber a .22lr in your .22 mag if it ever ended up in their labs, probably ruining your pistol, but also allowing them to use the same logic they used to de-antique the old Merwin & Hulbert revolvers?
 
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TheCoachZed said:
The simplest way to do the revolver conversion would be to get a machinist to turn some "dummy cartridges" with holes in the middle. These holes would then be your new chamber - ream them out to .22 mag or .17 hmr or 5mm magnum or whatever. Somehow affix these dummy cartridges in your cylinder, and the only problems you are left with is lining up your firing pin to strike the primer, and making sure the new cylinder arrangement aligns properly with the barrel, which you would sleeve down to .22 wmr or .17 hmr.

I doubt it would be easy or cheap (or safe? :D), but it would be a way to convert a revolver in those impossible-to-find calibers into something you could buy at C-Tire. I'm sure that revolvers like those Dutch police pieces that were on here for sale last year would handle the rimfire pressures, and for people who don't want to spend their weekends cutting down .30-30 brass, it would be a decent solution. Maybe even a DIY, for the most part, although the ramifications of getting something wrong, especially the cylinder alignment, would be catastrophic (DISCLAIMER! NOBODY TRY THIS! :D)

A single-shot pistol or a double-barrel derringer would probably be a much easier and safer proposition.

I also suspect that CFC would give you much less hassle if you did it with a .17 hmr conversion, since some tech would chamber a .22lr in your .22 mag if it ever ended up in their labs, probably ruining your pistol, but also allowing them to use the same logic they used to de-antique the old Merwin & Hulbert revolvers?
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would be safer and easier to use an old 22 barrel and sleeve the works in a rimfire revolver...offset the barrel and press the chamber sleeves in and no worries...added strength to barrel and chambers and no messing around when it's done...drop yer 22mag shells in and go...every time :evil:
and-
just cuzz it goes in the chamber doesn't mean that's what it's chambered for...ffs you can drop any number of cartridges on the list into chambers not on the list and they'll go boom...doesn't make them illegal...just makes the guy doin it a boob!:p

that's like saying yer .357 is a 38spl cuzz it'll chamber and fire them...

let's not give the powers that be any more stupid ideas ;)
 
I dont really see any advantage to 22 Mag or 17 Hmr myeslf. I used to think it would be cool but 45 Acp is so cheep i buy it at gun shows for $5 to $10 a box + its cheep and easy to load.
Also converting to RF meens changeing the hammer and fireing pin and altering the hole in the frame (in a SAA) i cant see it.

Whos gona wreck a nice SAA Colt cutting and altering it and to turn it into 22 Mag :confused:

I have a Remington 1871 Rolling block that was 50 Caliber CF now its 50 70 CF with a 10 inch barrel, It could be made into a 44 Magnum.
I recently missed out on a Rolling Block 1871 pistol converted to 44 Magnum in the USA.
Thats a test of the RB action it shoots 44 russian 44 sp and 44 mag.

My 1871 handles the 50 70 useing 50 cal Round balls but it hurts my hand when i shoot it. im gona try some rubber padding on the wood grip.
I will say one thing that 50 Caliber Rd balls just screaming down range . the gun shoots 2 inch groups at 50 yds to.
So im not gona mess with RF conversions when theres easy CF options.
 
TheCoachZed said:
I was actually wondering if I procured an antique SAA frame somewhere if I could add .22 WMR barrel and cylinder to it? How much do old and new SAA and clone parts mix and match?
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The barrel would need the correct thread, new barrels have a finer thread. The ratchet on new SAA cylinders is slightly different too. You could also convert it to .38spl or .44spl.
 
Hows the length of a 38 rimfire long compare to a 22 WMR?

I could see doing the number onna 1873 Colt, but it would have to be a salvaged old hack of a frame to be worth doing this to it.

A better candidate would maybe be some of the 32, 38, or larger , rimfire pistols that would otherwise get used as trot line sinkers.

For that matter, how much of the original frame, or how much alteration could be worked into the equation, before folks get all persnickety about it being a "new" frame, rather than an "old" one? Guys used to cut and reweld Mauser bolt gun frames, to make both short actions and magnumb length actions. Is 'stretching' a frame considered foul or fair?

I know of at least one old Colt that was built after the cutoff date, that looks much like it was stored under the seat of a sunk boat for a good portion of it's life, before the owners took it to the chrome shop to stop the corrosion from getting worse. If it were a few years older, it'd be a great candidate for such a project, as it's really never going to be worth what it would cost in skilled resto work, as a restored pistol.

Sleeving the cylinder would be no huge job, making a barrel from a blank would be no real big deal breaker either. Not a drop together project, probably not really a project to consider if you were paying someone else to do it, but do-able.

Cheers
Trev
 
I don't know why you cant just use barrel inserts in .22 cal i was thinking of turning down a .22 barrel for my o/u .41 derringer one thing i would worry about
is the barrel i turn down would need to be offset to one side so the barrel may split on the thin side.i think would only want to fire fire .22 shorts to be safe.
i have seen .45 long colt inserts for sale (numrichs part # 765870)for firing ..22s in a .45lc not sure if they ship to canada or not.
 
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