Is 30-06 basically a lost cause?
- Thread starter mr00jimbo
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Ballistically, the 308 is very close with less powder. Furthermore, Match grade components are not readily available in 30-06 (ie Lapua Brass)
I hunt exclusively with 30-06 and I think it is the perfect round m'self... As for precision, it's not a comfortable round to shoot all day long but I know a fellow that competed - and won - in F CLass with 30-06. He has since gone to 6 and 6.5's
You can make it as precise as you want; it is capable of competetive results.
I hunt exclusively with 30-06 and I think it is the perfect round m'self... As for precision, it's not a comfortable round to shoot all day long but I know a fellow that competed - and won - in F CLass with 30-06. He has since gone to 6 and 6.5's
You can make it as precise as you want; it is capable of competetive results.
Kodiak99317
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I agree, the '06 is a great hunting round. I was talking to a fish cop in Alberta back in the early 90's and he said there was a study done once and the '06 came out on top for 1 shot kills using live pigs or something like that as the test bed vs many of the then popular cases. They wanted the best rifle for bear protection (thus the pigs) so they picked the '06.
I also read in PS years back that the '06 used in rapid fire comps was not a good as the 308 since the '06 had too much case capacity. The article said that the first couple of rounds would print 1 moa off the next dozen or more shots since in the comp, at the start, you have to elevate the rifle to load the mag and adjust the sights, causing the powder to be at the rear of the case for the first couple of shots, but after the recoil of those first couple os shots caused the powder to distribute evenly in the remaining cases, with the air space at the top, causing an approx. 1 moa elevation change from first to last shots.
308's will out group most '06's, for the average shooter, since the 308 has a better case design IMO, using less powder and thus less recoil.
This all said, there is no reason you could not come out a compete with an '06 in F-Class. It does have a slight edge in velocity over the 308 so... if your shoulder can take the recoil all day long, and you can come up with a great load that groups good, with good cases, you should be on top.
I also read in PS years back that the '06 used in rapid fire comps was not a good as the 308 since the '06 had too much case capacity. The article said that the first couple of rounds would print 1 moa off the next dozen or more shots since in the comp, at the start, you have to elevate the rifle to load the mag and adjust the sights, causing the powder to be at the rear of the case for the first couple of shots, but after the recoil of those first couple os shots caused the powder to distribute evenly in the remaining cases, with the air space at the top, causing an approx. 1 moa elevation change from first to last shots.
308's will out group most '06's, for the average shooter, since the 308 has a better case design IMO, using less powder and thus less recoil.
This all said, there is no reason you could not come out a compete with an '06 in F-Class. It does have a slight edge in velocity over the 308 so... if your shoulder can take the recoil all day long, and you can come up with a great load that groups good, with good cases, you should be on top.
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"...the 308 has a better case design..." Same case but a half inch shorter. Ballistically, the two are identical. The only difference is the half inch of case and the 100fps or so higher velocity with the same bullet the .30-06 gives. You can use heavier bullets in the '06 too. Not that you'd need to though.
There's nothing wrong with the .30-06 for target shooting. It's just that the .308 is inherently more accurate. Has to do with the short wide case. The .30-06 was used in target shooting for eons, Stateside. If a Rem 700 is what you have and you've worked up a load with match grade bullets(168 grain HPBT match bullets and IMR4064 delivers fabulous accuray) and it's got a good trigger, go shoot it.
There's nothing wrong with the .30-06 for target shooting. It's just that the .308 is inherently more accurate. Has to do with the short wide case. The .30-06 was used in target shooting for eons, Stateside. If a Rem 700 is what you have and you've worked up a load with match grade bullets(168 grain HPBT match bullets and IMR4064 delivers fabulous accuray) and it's got a good trigger, go shoot it.
dangertree
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I don't understand the question.
Have you reached the point that you as a shooter are outshooting your rifle/calibre/ammo and there's no where left to go to improve your scores but another calibre/rifle combination? Or are you asking if better target shooting calibres exist?
Have you reached the point that you as a shooter are outshooting your rifle/calibre/ammo and there's no where left to go to improve your scores but another calibre/rifle combination? Or are you asking if better target shooting calibres exist?
The 06 is a great cartridge and at times a little forgotten with all the super talk about new calibers taking up everybodies time but the 06 is as accurate as any of the cartridges within it's powder capacity. In my opinion it is a more viable option for long range shooting compared to the 308 but may not be legal to use in some of the competitions but in my opinion it gives the heavier 168gr and up bullets just that little bit extra that the 308 lacks for long range use. I wouldn't turn my back on it just yet.
bigbull
bigbull
300Spartans
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To answer your question, no it isn't. 30-06 is an excellent cartridge and very, very capable.
I also read in PS years back that the '06 used in rapid fire cops was not a good as the 308 since the '06 had too much case capacity. The article said that the first couple of rounds would print 1 moa off the next dozen or more shots since in the comp, at the start, you have to elevate the rifle to load the mag and adjust the sights, causing the powder to be at the rear of the case for the first couple of shots, but after the recoil of those first couple os shots caused the powder to distribute evenly in the remaining cases, with the air space at the top, causing an approx. 1 moa elevation change from first to last shots.
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Does that mean that any Cartridge with more case capacity than a 308 is no good for precision shooting????No matter which cartridge you use for precision shooting,you better fill up your cases,since omitting to do so will increase the chances of flyers.The 06 is as good and capable as a 308,when it comes to target shooting,as long as proper components are used.That includes the shooter as well.
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Does that mean that any Cartridge with more case capacity than a 308 is no good for precision shooting????No matter which cartridge you use for precision shooting,you better fill up your cases,since omitting to do so will increase the chances of flyers.The 06 is as good and capable as a 308,when it comes to target shooting,as long as proper components are used.That includes the shooter as well.
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Depending on what you wanna do, a magnum sporter weight 12 twist 24 in long match barrel would certainly add to the fun. 
varminter said:
Its simply a matter of choosing the correct type of powder. A powder charge that completely fills the case will generally be more accurate regardless of the caliber. Look in your reloading manual for a load using an extruded powder with a higher charge weight relative to the other powders listed for the same load. Some manuals will indicate which loads are compressed or a more accurate.
Steve David
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Both my dad and my grandfather have hunted with a 30-06 for many years and nothing else. There is noting in Canada that a 30-06 will not bring down.
The 30-06 is a very accurate cartridge, Federal makes it in the Gold Match line.
Although the 30-06 is not a very popular caliber for target shooting, I think it must be ok, look at the Camp Perry matches with Garands, out to 1000 yards and, Carlos Hathcock did make most of his kills in Vietnam with a 30-06 and you can bet that those were not close shots. Nto only did he prefer the M70 over the M700, he also prefered the 30-06 to the .308.
The 30-06 is a very accurate cartridge, Federal makes it in the Gold Match line.
Although the 30-06 is not a very popular caliber for target shooting, I think it must be ok, look at the Camp Perry matches with Garands, out to 1000 yards and, Carlos Hathcock did make most of his kills in Vietnam with a 30-06 and you can bet that those were not close shots. Nto only did he prefer the M70 over the M700, he also prefered the 30-06 to the .308.
Statistically, a top-end .308 will probably have a SLIGHT edge in accuracy over a top-end .30-06.
Assume a tuned-up 700 action, pillar bedded into the best stock, using the best Krieger barrels and carefully crafted handloads built around that particular rifle's needs, and a .308 should theoretically be capable of shooting into the .1s, certainly the .2s. A comparable .30-06 should be capable of shooting into the .2s, certainly the .3s. At least, this is what knowledgable people say are the statistical possibilities. Obviously, individual rifles can vary up or down.
Let's assume this to be true. Say you built an '06 match rifle that shot 1/4 m.o.a, or even 1/3 m.o.a. Would you be disappointed that it didn't do better and dream for more accuracy? If so, you need to stick with the .308, or something like the 6-BR.
As others have said, the sheer practicality of the .308 generally favours its use. It burns less powder, has a longer barrel life than an '06, less recoil (the biggest factor, by far), and has the largest selection of match components, chamber reamers, brass, etc.
I'll tell you one thing, though. If you didn't mind more recoil and expense, then a .30-06 would make a formiddable precision/sniper rifle, with today's components. Put together a top-end barrel like a McLennan or Krieger .3075, 1-10" twist, in a top-grade stock, load it with Lapua .30-06 brass (readily available from Lapua suppliers), Fed 210M primers, 175-grain Sierra MKs pushed by -- and here's the secret -- 62+ grains of Vihtavuori N560, and you'll see that the .300 Winchester Magnum has one less reason to exist. In addition, you'll be within DCRA rules, and be able to use that rifle on all DCRA ranges (where a .300 Win Mag is banned).
I'd also expect such a combination to be capable of spectacular accuracy.
So, no, a .30-06 is not obsolete. With today's components, its better than ever. But to really make it worthwhile, you'll have to burn a lot of specialized powder and accept considerably more recoil and muzzle blast.
Assume a tuned-up 700 action, pillar bedded into the best stock, using the best Krieger barrels and carefully crafted handloads built around that particular rifle's needs, and a .308 should theoretically be capable of shooting into the .1s, certainly the .2s. A comparable .30-06 should be capable of shooting into the .2s, certainly the .3s. At least, this is what knowledgable people say are the statistical possibilities. Obviously, individual rifles can vary up or down.
Let's assume this to be true. Say you built an '06 match rifle that shot 1/4 m.o.a, or even 1/3 m.o.a. Would you be disappointed that it didn't do better and dream for more accuracy? If so, you need to stick with the .308, or something like the 6-BR.
As others have said, the sheer practicality of the .308 generally favours its use. It burns less powder, has a longer barrel life than an '06, less recoil (the biggest factor, by far), and has the largest selection of match components, chamber reamers, brass, etc.
I'll tell you one thing, though. If you didn't mind more recoil and expense, then a .30-06 would make a formiddable precision/sniper rifle, with today's components. Put together a top-end barrel like a McLennan or Krieger .3075, 1-10" twist, in a top-grade stock, load it with Lapua .30-06 brass (readily available from Lapua suppliers), Fed 210M primers, 175-grain Sierra MKs pushed by -- and here's the secret -- 62+ grains of Vihtavuori N560, and you'll see that the .300 Winchester Magnum has one less reason to exist. In addition, you'll be within DCRA rules, and be able to use that rifle on all DCRA ranges (where a .300 Win Mag is banned).
I'd also expect such a combination to be capable of spectacular accuracy.
So, no, a .30-06 is not obsolete. With today's components, its better than ever. But to really make it worthwhile, you'll have to burn a lot of specialized powder and accept considerably more recoil and muzzle blast.
I have a heavy barrel 30-06 on a M98 style action that i built. The barrel is a 1 in 10" twist and it loves to digest 175gr Sierra Match sitting in Varget. The rifle will print under an inch all day. It's sister gun in 308 consistenently groups 1/2" 5 round groups at a 100 with the same bullet. The only difference in the 2 guns is the stock and scope set up. the 308 is ready for the bench and the '06 is my hunting rig. Soon a big brother in 300 win mag will be added.
Mystic Precision
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 06 case for target shooting IF there was a shooting game that made sense using it. Right now, there isn't.
That is why you don't see the 06 used much. The games are set up to require the 308 or favor something much bigger like the 300Wby and improved cases.
The 06 will push a heavier bullet faster then the 308. And same bullet weights up to 250fps faster. Recoil is higher but not as high as the magnums. Equally accurate. If need be, just sharpen the shoulder so that it will look the part/gain a bit more case capacity.
With todays assortment of powders, the 06 can easily be worked up with very high load density and performance not too far off the 300WM/WSM clan in longer barrels.
Until there is a game to exploit the '06's particular attributes, it will continue to do what it is presently doing very well, bring home the venison.
Just remember that the 308 is used because it is mandated in the rules of many shooting games. From a target shooters perspective of ballistics vs recoil, the 308 is probably the WORSE choice out there today of popular cals and cartridges.
Jerry
That is why you don't see the 06 used much. The games are set up to require the 308 or favor something much bigger like the 300Wby and improved cases.
The 06 will push a heavier bullet faster then the 308. And same bullet weights up to 250fps faster. Recoil is higher but not as high as the magnums. Equally accurate. If need be, just sharpen the shoulder so that it will look the part/gain a bit more case capacity.
With todays assortment of powders, the 06 can easily be worked up with very high load density and performance not too far off the 300WM/WSM clan in longer barrels.
Until there is a game to exploit the '06's particular attributes, it will continue to do what it is presently doing very well, bring home the venison.
Just remember that the 308 is used because it is mandated in the rules of many shooting games. From a target shooters perspective of ballistics vs recoil, the 308 is probably the WORSE choice out there today of popular cals and cartridges.
Jerry
Obtunded said:
Sorry to say but 30-06 can be found in Lapua brass.
http://www.lapua.com/components for centerfire rifle cartridges.htm
Calvin
dangertree
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mr00jimbo said:
Gotcha. Carry on!
