Is 30-06 still a decent round?

Interestingly, the 240 gr Woodleigh measures 1.429" long and the 180 gr TSX measures 1.392" so seating to the same OAL in a .300 Winchester wouldn't pose any particular problem. By necessity, the heavier bullet would have a shorter powder column given the same powder, so there would be no issue with greater powder compression. The .300 H&H, IMHO is a better cartridge for long bullets though.
 
As much a fan of the 270 Win as I am, having killed lots of big game from deer to moose and bears using it, the 30-06 is still one of the best for hunting big game in this country, and most others as well.

Ted
 
Boomer said:
Like TheTooner said, I got them from Tradex. I was using H-4350 but I don't recall the load off the top of my head. I started with the old Barnes data for the 250 Original, and worked up a hair.
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That is going to be my next summer's project when it warms up enough to do good load testing.
 
saskcop said:
That is some interesting reloading info there. Lots of heavy for caliber stuff moving right along if it is accurate.
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Uh huh. Pretty impressive for a 310 gr rn in the 35 Whelan

Woodleigh 358 Cal .358” 310gr RN SN #54

ADI AR2209/H4350 56gr 2235

IMR4320 51gr 2220

RELODER15 57gr 2435
 
Boomer said:
Maybe, maybe not. The .300 Winchester is capable of driving the 240 Woodleigh 200 fps faster than it is designed to impact, so you might get a good kill, or you might have a disaster on your hands; particularly considering the size of game those bullets were originally designed to kill.

The .300 Winchester is a good round, I've shot it a fair bit, and it works. But if the .300 Winchester is better than the .30/06 due to its higher muzzle velocity, then by that logic the .30-378 is better than the .300 Winchester. I would opine that's only true if the guy shooting it has the experience to exploit the advantage; otherwise its just more noise, more recoil, and higher expense without any return. That's sort of how I feel about the .300 Winchester, if I need more than the .30/06, then I need bigger rather than faster, and I have bigger. But for the individual who has need of a powerful rifle, but who isn't up to the recoil and blast of the truly powerful rifles, the .30/06 is the best option.
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This is kinda my whole point. I have the option with the .300 to drive it faster, or slower.
The .300 isn't better than the 06 because its faster, it better because of the choice. I can load it down, or up, my choice. Can't do that with the 06.
If I want less noise, less recoil, and lower expense, then I can run an 06 load in it! If, and when, I want that extra power, I can have it, without having to purchase another rifle.

A fella can always load a .300 down to an 06, but ya can't load an 06 up to a .300.

R.
 
Boomer said:
Maybe, maybe not. The .300 Winchester is capable of driving the 240 Woodleigh 200 fps faster than it is designed to impact, so you might get a good kill, or you might have a disaster on your hands; particularly considering the size of game those bullets were originally designed to kill.

The .300 Winchester is a good round, I've shot it a fair bit, and it works. But if the .300 Winchester is better than the .30/06 due to its higher muzzle velocity, then by that logic the .30-378 is better than the .300 Winchester. I would opine that's only true if the guy shooting it has the experience to exploit the advantage; otherwise its just more noise, more recoil, and higher expense without any return. That's sort of how I feel about the .300 Winchester, if I need more than the .30/06, then I need bigger rather than faster, and I have bigger. But for the individual who has need of a powerful rifle, but who isn't up to the recoil and blast of the truly powerful rifles, the .30/06 is the best option.
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I think the same way. If I need more power I'd go bigger not faster.
 
Rocket Surgery said:
I just had this conversation with my dad for like 3 days over a long weekend. I told him it's a fantastic round that he shouldn't buy, which confused the heck out of him.

Here's my argument against 30-06:

* The existence of .308Winchester

1) Find surplus ammo for practice
2) You mag capacity is lower
3) The action is longer
3.1) The gun is now heavier
3.2) The bolt is usually wobblier
3.3) The scope has less flexibility to move front and back
4) The hunting ammo is usually a bit more expensive
5) .308 can kill anything 30-06 can


In the end I actually told him to go buy a Tikka T3 30-06 simply because it doesn't matter which cartridge is better, it matters what you're comfortable with. He owned a Sako 30-06 in the 1970's, and the Tikka has the same action length regardless of calibre, so 308 would have been long action regardless. Modern bullet construction really makes it so any cartridge that can push a premium projectile of 130g faster than 2500FPS is a big game killer, so you may as well pick whatever is shortest, most available, cheapest, and comfortable to shoot. There's even 7mm-08 which isn't too shabby.

What's funny is that the guy at the gun store started going off about .270 vs 30-06, it's such an easy argument to make, but it further confused my dad:

* Beyond 150y .270 is better than 30-06
* Below 150y .270 is going to kill anything it hits
* Therefore, .270 is better than 30-06
* Buy .308

I really wish that clerk wouldn't have brought up the .270 because I had to then agree that it was better than 30-06

I just think it's funny how he started off wanting a 30-06, I told him .308 is better, and now I'm trying to convince him to get a 30-06. He has more experience with the 30-06 than the .308 but he's so convinced that .308 is better now.

I have this feeling I'm going to be buying him a T3 in 30-06 just to stop him from calling me every week to go over this. It's hard enough trying to explain why rifles don't come with irons sights, and why the stocks are plastic now.
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He should get a .270 Win. Sweetest combination of recoil and power there is, and can still take anything in N.A. including elk and grizz.
 
philthygeezer said:
He should get a .270 Win. Sweetest combination of recoil and power there is, and can still take anything in N.A. including elk and grizz.
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Seriously though, he's 61 years old and REALLY fuddy. Just yesterday he called to remind me to get my lockjaw shots (seriously) and to look for sales on new tires for the truck. I don't want to spend time explaining to him the difference between every cartridge when I know that he understands the 30-06, there's just nothing wrong with that caliber if you can live with its shortcomings. The Tikka T3 only comes in one action length, so there's no point getting a short action cartridge and he likes the gun.

I agree that 270 is better than 30-06, that's a stupid argument to get into because the answer is so obvious, but I'd just rather that the old man purchase something and not question whether it was the right choice for the rest of his life.

I'm probably going to be the one buying the rifle, because he lives in some isolated hick town and I'm in the city, so he really has no say in this now.

laminatedss.jpg
 
Rman said:
This is kinda my whole point. I have the option with the .300 to drive it faster, or slower.
The .300 isn't better than the 06 because its faster, it better because of the choice. I can load it down, or up, my choice. Can't do that with the 06.
If I want less noise, less recoil, and lower expense, then I can run an 06 load in it! If, and when, I want that extra power, I can have it, without having to purchase another rifle.

A fella can always load a .300 down to an 06, but ya can't load an 06 up to a .300.

R.
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Wow... Good for you... You can also go grab a box of core lokt off the shelf at the quickie mart for a 30-06 and drop a 12 point buck at 300 yards if you rifle is sighted in... Ta-Da!!!
 
I wouldn't. But if I loaded a .300 Mag with them, I sure as hell would tell you where the more is.
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Yeah. It may not be a good idea to do that...

The 300wm is the only cartridge to have a neck smaller in length than the diameter of the bullet. It has such a small bearing area that it is well known that bullets of 220gr and up tend to fall out of 300wm cartridges in the magazine...

30'06 doesn't have this problem...
 
Idcurrie said:
Yeah. It may not be a good idea to do that...

The 300wm is the only cartridge to have a neck smaller in length than the diameter of the bullet. It has such a small bearing area that it is well known that bullets of 220gr and up tend to fall out of 300wm cartridges in the magazine...

30'06 doesn't have this problem...
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This is a joke, right? Between me and my two friends who use the .300 WM with 220gr Partitions we have probably gone through close to 500 rounds. And never even once had a problem. The variety of moose, elk, whitetails, mulies, grizzlies and black bears, on the other hand, did have a problem.;)
 
Superbrad said:
Wow... Good for you... You can also go grab a box of core lokt off the shelf at the quickie mart for a 30-06 and drop a 12 point buck at 300 yards if you rifle is sighted in... Ta-Da!!!
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'Cause on the next shelf over from that same box of 06 core lox, wouldn't there be the same thing, except in .300 Win Mag?

That would be a six point buck out here.

Ta-Da!!!!

;)

R.
 
rral22 said:
Really? I didn't know that well known fact.
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It is:

"However, the short neck with the shoulder moved forward does cause some real problems. Since the .300 Winchester Magnum is designed to work out of a standard length action heavier bullets will need to be seated deeper into the case. Since many heavier .30 caliber (7.62 mm) bullets have a long taper, and these bullets will be required to be seated deeper into the case, the neck will end up being positioned in the ogive rather than on the shank of the bullet due to the fact that Winchester had moved the shoulder forward.[6] This prevents the case from having a good grip on the bullet. Under recoil such loosely held bullets in the magazine will be pushed back into the case. Also, if using a highly compressed load the cartridge might “grow” in length and may not be able to fit into the magazine. For these reasons bullets weighing over 200 grains (13 g) are not recommended.[18] Norma goes further recommending that bullets heavier than 180 grains (12 g) not be used with the cartridge.[17]"


17 ^ a b "300 Winchester Magnum". norma.cc. Norma Precision AB. Retrieved October 24, 2010.

18 ^ Hawks, Chuck (2004). "The .300 Winchester Magnum". chuckhawks.com. Guns & Shooting Online. Retrieved October 24, 2010.
 
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