I have shot the leverevolution 160 gr. in 30-30. It puts your 30-30 into the .303 category. It shoots way different than any other 30-30 bullet, so make sure you spend some time with it. The trajectory is completely different.
Is 30/30 a good caliber to hunt deer?
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I have shot the leverevolution 160 gr. in 30-30. It puts your 30-30 into the .303 category. It shoots way different than any other 30-30 bullet, so make sure you spend some time with it. The trajectory is completely different.
Applefarmer
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I imagine a post in the EE with a pic and it'll be gone rather swiftly. Which variant do you have?
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
Hmm... some posters seem to think that you need 4000 ft./lbs. to kill a deer.
Strangely enough, they're the ones who started hunting last year, and some of them pose next to the huge 150 lb. bullet proof deer that would have merely scoffed at a lowly 2000 ft./lbs. of muzzle energy, and a slovenly 1400 at 100 yards. Oddly the lowly 30-30; at least on paper has as much energy at 400 yards as a .357 does at the muzzle, which seems to be a decent deer cartridge South of the border (which should be noted as enjoying a 95% instant incapacitation on other deer sized predators....). Or roughly as much energy (at 100) as the "minimum" does at the largely imagined ranges that they're purchased for.
Yeah, it'll do the job inside 300 using the right ammo.
So with scant regard to the old timers, bullet weight, momentum and Taylor's (?) K.O. index they traipse off to the store with their friend in "the know" who started shooting earlier that summer.
Once at Wholesale Sports, resplendent their shiny new camo boots, shirts, jackets, pants, socks, gloves and undies, they stride confidently up to the gun counter to assert their manhood and leave with at least, the mighty .300 Win. Mag.; which should be noted has a hefty power rating for at least a solid 1400 ft./lbs. at 500 yards. We experienced in the way of killing in the wild know that these 1/2 km opportunities come often, so we, dominant killers of the wild, must gird our loins with the latest and greatest. For if we do not; it will be noted in the annals of mandom that we were not ready for that far off shot....and also the very real possibility that we might be seen as "girlie".
Our intrepid hunters sprawl across the counter and nod knowingly to the passing collegiate staff. Finally a burgeoning young firearms master notices and approaches, with 26 inch chest straining mightily at his shirt fabric and chin held high. "We need to see some .300 Mags.; and not the cheap $500 ones. We need the ones that can shoot. Hence, only the minimum $1000+ need apply." (Said with grand gesture and flourish.) "You might want to go right to the sniper section for our friend here." "Would that be the .300 Weathwington Ultra Super Mag.?"
Our heroes shoot hurried glances at one another, unprepared for this new development. "Give us a minute." A huddle is quickly formed. "Didn't you pick up the new Guns & Ammo!?" "No! I thought you did!" "Wait; remain calm. We'll just casually inquire like we knew about it the whole time." (Turning back to counter) "Yes, let us see this weapon, and behold whether it is worthy to kill the mighty deer. Tell us what you have heard of it." "Only that it's good for 100 fps over last years Ultra Mag and the U.S. marines have ordered 5000 units from Savage." "Well that is what we need then, except in not such an inefficaciously affordable platform. We have to spend real money here."
And so the birth of the "minimum deer round" is completed.
Strangely enough, they're the ones who started hunting last year, and some of them pose next to the huge 150 lb. bullet proof deer that would have merely scoffed at a lowly 2000 ft./lbs. of muzzle energy, and a slovenly 1400 at 100 yards. Oddly the lowly 30-30; at least on paper has as much energy at 400 yards as a .357 does at the muzzle, which seems to be a decent deer cartridge South of the border (which should be noted as enjoying a 95% instant incapacitation on other deer sized predators....). Or roughly as much energy (at 100) as the "minimum" does at the largely imagined ranges that they're purchased for.
Yeah, it'll do the job inside 300 using the right ammo.
So with scant regard to the old timers, bullet weight, momentum and Taylor's (?) K.O. index they traipse off to the store with their friend in "the know" who started shooting earlier that summer.
Once at Wholesale Sports, resplendent their shiny new camo boots, shirts, jackets, pants, socks, gloves and undies, they stride confidently up to the gun counter to assert their manhood and leave with at least, the mighty .300 Win. Mag.; which should be noted has a hefty power rating for at least a solid 1400 ft./lbs. at 500 yards. We experienced in the way of killing in the wild know that these 1/2 km opportunities come often, so we, dominant killers of the wild, must gird our loins with the latest and greatest. For if we do not; it will be noted in the annals of mandom that we were not ready for that far off shot....and also the very real possibility that we might be seen as "girlie".
Our intrepid hunters sprawl across the counter and nod knowingly to the passing collegiate staff. Finally a burgeoning young firearms master notices and approaches, with 26 inch chest straining mightily at his shirt fabric and chin held high. "We need to see some .300 Mags.; and not the cheap $500 ones. We need the ones that can shoot. Hence, only the minimum $1000+ need apply." (Said with grand gesture and flourish.) "You might want to go right to the sniper section for our friend here." "Would that be the .300 Weathwington Ultra Super Mag.?"
Our heroes shoot hurried glances at one another, unprepared for this new development. "Give us a minute." A huddle is quickly formed. "Didn't you pick up the new Guns & Ammo!?" "No! I thought you did!" "Wait; remain calm. We'll just casually inquire like we knew about it the whole time." (Turning back to counter) "Yes, let us see this weapon, and behold whether it is worthy to kill the mighty deer. Tell us what you have heard of it." "Only that it's good for 100 fps over last years Ultra Mag and the U.S. marines have ordered 5000 units from Savage." "Well that is what we need then, except in not such an inefficaciously affordable platform. We have to spend real money here."
And so the birth of the "minimum deer round" is completed.
This could be in ANY store across the country...... thanks for the good laugh!
Hmmmm.... or maybe some of us just want to put our game animals down as quickly and humanely as possible and don't want them running away wounded.... and we feel there are better tools out there now to do the job than a .30-30 ..... and before you tell me to "practice" so I can make the perfect shot, I do practice.... but the woods is not the rifle range.... and sh1t happens....
Has anyone ever told you that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour?
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
Well said, my friend.
Thank you. Cheers to you!
I rather enjoyed typing it myself!
Funny, the deer I've killed by 30-30, went down as if struck by lightning. I didn't even have to hit them in the eye. My 6.5x55 with factory and light loads drops em pretty fast, too. With about the same muzzle energy to boot!
"We feel there are better tools out there than a 30-30?" Just who is this collective "we" and why do the grizzled old-timers not recognize this vast wealth of knowledge?
A poor shot with a canon, is still a poor shot. I would rather take a "small" gun out that I'm not afraid to shoot than something flinch inducing, which doesn't help marksmanship one bit. I actually like the big guns too.
Yes, there are bigger, faster cartridges, perhaps even (gasp) better than the venerable 30-30. In most cases, their value as a hunting arm is vastly overstated. Do the above math concerning comparative energies and ranges.
The 30-30 set the Western world on fire when it was introduced in 1895 spitting a 160-165 grain bullet at 1900-2000 fps (the new ammo is faster). Europe had some faster "more modern" cartridges out around the same time. Regardless, the 30-30 took hold. 11 short years later, what many people consider a "modern" cartridge emerged in the form of the 30-06 (and earlier 30-03).
Despite this, the 30-30 continued to be a strong seller. Some people bought into the '06 but many people stuck with their gun; they knew it did what it was meant to. Throw a bullet of moderate weight at a moderate speed for reliable bullet performance. Worked well almost 120 years ago, and deer armor not advancing as fast as they would hope, works well today.
What do you mean lowest form of humour? Guess it just doesn't reach the epitome of making fart noises with your armpit, does it?
Oh well, at least I have a couple fans. ^^
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
By some the exasperation and hyperventilating experienced by the anti 30-30 crowd, the dramatic seemed fitting.
And no; should I? I'm probably not as good at acting out, as writing...
Aww yes, sacasticricular humor.
Only at it's best.
Humor is humor.
Thanks for it tactical lever.
I was just having a discussion with a fellow hunter who also
wishes to lower his fps as he did the blew the animal to pieces
thing.
Turdy-turdy is a good deer round with in it's reach.
I do like my new to me Marling 336 in this chambering.
Dang accurate rifle with the 2x7x33 perched on top of it.
Only at it's best.
Humor is humor.
Thanks for it tactical lever.
I was just having a discussion with a fellow hunter who also
wishes to lower his fps as he did the blew the animal to pieces
thing.
Turdy-turdy is a good deer round with in it's reach.
I do like my new to me Marling 336 in this chambering.
Dang accurate rifle with the 2x7x33 perched on top of it.
Thank you. Cheers to you!
I rather enjoyed typing it myself!
Funny, the deer I've killed by 30-30, went down as if struck by lightning. I didn't even have to hit them in the eye. My 6.5x55 with factory and light loads drops em pretty fast, too. With about the same muzzle energy to boot!
"We feel there are better tools out there than a 30-30?" Just who is this collective "we" and why do the grizzled old-timers not recognize this vast wealth of knowledge?
A poor shot with a canon, is still a poor shot. I would rather take a "small" gun out that I'm not afraid to shoot than something flinch inducing, which doesn't help marksmanship one bit. I actually like the big guns too.
Yes, there are bigger, faster cartridges, perhaps even (gasp) better than the venerable 30-30. In most cases, their value as a hunting arm is vastly overstated. Do the above math concerning comparative energies and ranges.
The 30-30 set the Western world on fire when it was introduced in 1895 spitting a 160-165 grain bullet at 1900-2000 fps (the new ammo is faster). Europe had some faster "more modern" cartridges out around the same time. Regardless, the 30-30 took hold. 11 short years later, what many people consider a "modern" cartridge emerged in the form of the 30-06 (and earlier 30-03).
Despite this, the 30-30 continued to be a strong seller. Some people bought into the '06 but many people stuck with their gun; they knew it did what it was meant to. Throw a bullet of moderate weight at a moderate speed for reliable bullet performance. Worked well almost 120 years ago, and deer armor not advancing as fast as they would hope, works well today.
What do you mean lowest form of humour? Guess it just doesn't reach the epitome of making fart noises with your armpit, does it?
Oh well, at least I have a couple fans. ^^
Again... I take insult at your insinuation that anyone that has the opinion that a more powerful rifle be used is some sort of "bling bling" poorly experienced city boy hunter.... I have been shooting for 30 years now in one form or another and have fired everything from a crossman .177 to a Carl G launcher....
Bigger is not always better but when you are comparing simple points such as muzzle velocity a .30 - .30 is lacking..... now, if you are willing to limit yourself to teh capability of a .30 - .30 then fill your boots... but no need to limit the OP's capability also.....
And your "old boy's" analogy.... times change, things progress, life goes on.... lever actions are by far the most unreliable and unsafe actions....
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Yup...it's good enough for Deer!
Something to be said about shooting a deer with an old hand me down too. My Grampa passed his down to my Dad, then to me, and we all killed Deer with it. Kinda ties us together a little more in my mind.
I use the more modern calibers now, but every once in a while it was nice to pull the old 3030 out just for old times sake.
Something to be said about shooting a deer with an old hand me down too. My Grampa passed his down to my Dad, then to me, and we all killed Deer with it. Kinda ties us together a little more in my mind.
I use the more modern calibers now, but every once in a while it was nice to pull the old 3030 out just for old times sake.
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
Why be bitter? Like I said, I do like the high stepping rounds as well. It's just that the sentiment that a 30-30 is no good is well...just wrong. I stated that the 30-30 is fine for most ranges. The magnums are fine a couple hundred yards past that. Firstly, most hunters myself included have a tendency to vastly overestimate the range and in one experiment, it was found that many doubled the actual range! Second, only about 5% of hunters have any business taking a shot at what they thing the max range with their magnum should be. And there are factors besides muzzle velocity. It is actually surprising to find how few opportunities "in the real world" you miss by not having a magnum. And by this I'm leaving out the bean field shooters.
The OP stated the probable range of his and his boy's shots. This was 100 yards. On a deer, not a cape buffalo, brown bear, wilde-beast or even a moose. For the record I still think he would be fine for the moose at 100. But not an under the tail shot.
The OP asked about the 30-30 specifically, I am in no way limiting him there. Not sure how much recoil him or his boy want to handle either. Lots of muzzle blast and recoil is a terrible way to start a young shooter.
Not sure how you can say my lever action is unreliable; no matter how light the load or how heavy, it cycles the same, even a little dirty. Not too many semi-autos can do that. As for being the weakest, my 1895 is capable of launching a 400 gr. bullet at over 2000 fps. You wouldn't want to try that in a trapdoor...
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This are the original questions posed by the OP, before we got into new/old, best/worst.
And yes Mr. Target, the Marlin is a fine gun. You will like the big loop if you're wearing gloves, that style of stock works well with scopes. And they still make the Marlins with real steel. The beartail forend is nice as well. I believe it has less effect on "walking" the rounds as the barrel heats up.
Of course you probably know the way I feel about levers....
1- OP was "assuming" the range would be under 100 yards... you put an excited young hunter in a tree stand and hand him a 30-30 and he sees a buck at 150... you are setting that hunter up for failure and that deer up for a miserable death....
2- Again, young hunters.... lever actions are the least safe actions out there... any firearm whose design forces you to put your finger inside the trigger guard when you are not intending to shoot said firearm is unsafe in my opinion... (Yes, this was not one of OP's questions but worth pointing out)
3- I agree with you regarding semi's, I am not a semi fan..... that being said, for an inexperienced shooter and hunter the lever is unreliable in that it requires significant and consistant movement to cycle the action reliably... you have used one for years and likely have the back and forth motion ingrained in your brain as do I with the bolt on my rifle and the pump on my shotgun.... the difference between you and the OP's boys is that you grew up on a lever... they are starting out....
I am not going to argue that a .30-30 can be effective... hell, I bow hunt... I just think the OP is setting his young lads up for failure by starting them out with an outdated round...
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
Well, even if he is overly dramatic, I'll have to give Tactical Lever the point here.
Deer. 100 yards. Will a 30-30 work? Hmmm........................... yes.
Deer. 100 yards. Will a 30-30 work? Hmmm........................... yes.
This entire thread is full of fail, but if I had to pick out one quote to facepalm about, it'd be this one.
The OP is talking about deer at less than 100 yards. Flat trajectory isn't a concern here. Knockdown power at 100 yards with the .30-30 will be MORE than enough. He's hunting DEER! Not moose, not elk, not sasquatch or chupacabra.
For a kid, a lever .30-30 is a great gun to learn on. With modern ammunition, they are reasonable accurate, reliable, and have more than enough power to take down any deer you can find.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that EVERYONE should have to shoot a deer with a .30-30. I did it once just to try something new. Probably shouldn't have taken the '67 Centennial out of the original box to do it, but I did. And it was a fantastic experience, right up there with my first bow hunt.
To the OP: Get a .30-30 and never look back.
Like I said earlier, lever action is THE WORST action to give a young shooter.... and the OP is "ASSUMING MOST OF IT WILL BE UNDER 100 YARDS".... I wonder what his boy thinks of that assumption and what he would do if faced with a deer at a distance of say 150 or 200.......
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If you are a competent hunter who can let the big one go til you get a better chance; sure it's a good 150-200 yd deer gun.
If you can't shrug and sigh and let the deer go because it's too far...better get something bigger.
My son shot his WT at 400+ yds this year with a loaded hot 6.5 X 55; I didn't have the heart to tell him " Nice shot son, but it's just good shooting; it's not good hunting"
IMO anything past 300 yds isn't hunting; it's shooting.
If you can't shrug and sigh and let the deer go because it's too far...better get something bigger.
My son shot his WT at 400+ yds this year with a loaded hot 6.5 X 55; I didn't have the heart to tell him " Nice shot son, but it's just good shooting; it's not good hunting"
IMO anything past 300 yds isn't hunting; it's shooting.
