Is 30-30 enough for close range elk?

Oh, I certainly have an availability of better choices. In fact, being that I ride into this spot, I could even bring my .338WM as a back-up or have my buddy there with his. But, this new 336XLR being my latest addition to the gun room is for now the "pet" gun. With Hornady's claimed 2200+ ft/lbs of energy for their Leverevolution stuff (at 50 yds), it is clearly something that I've been considering seriously. The spot that I refer to offers a max. range of 50 yards. It has proven successful two years in a row as other distant hunters unknowingly push game over the hill :evil: Obviously, everyone mentions "the well placed shot" - I wouldn't dream of anything less. Thanks for the feed back guys, now practise, practise. BTW accuracy wise, out of an open sighted 30WCF, the Leverevolution has impressed me. :)
 
Calum, that was with Fire Site for the front, and Williams FP receiver sight in the rear, on a 1954 made, 30-30 Winchester Carbine.
My idea on the sight mod's.

It was my Father's rifle, God rest his soul, he was from Belguim, and I think he was more impressed with the right to own a "real" deer rifle period, when he first came to Canada in 1953.
I am sure, this is the first and only centrefire rifle my Father, bought brand new, at the CFB Shearweater Canex no less.

Using the original sight set-up in about 1967 he totally misssed a deer, due maybe to the buckhorn sights he was not used to.

For many years this rifle sat in my parent's closet, carefully checked and lightly oiled, once every three months.

So on the 22nd of November 2005, at approximately 9:15 AM, up here just off of the Sun Core road in the Cold Lake Petroleum fields, this carbine I utilized and took, its first game animal!
Using Winchester Silvertip 150 grain, deer dead right there.

Best shot I ever took using irons, on the biggest deer (about 220 lbs!)
Of course he was standing still, the shot took him full in the chest. With my hold over aiming at his white throat patch, and I was offhand shooting. Plus I purposely had a high zero and I felt confident on my holdover requirement.
He was 3/4s on to me...and this is a moment fully engraved into my memory. I saw him come out of the forest hot on the trail of a doe in heat. He saw me a few moments latter, but could not figure out that I was a threat to himself. I feverishly sought a secure position! Prone! But the grass was too high. Neither was a sitting position clear of the tall grass.

Therefore the only option was a steady good shot offhand. And I forced myself to remain calm, and took the shot, after computing in my mind the best holdover.
The shot seemed defeaning in the clear Alberta morning air, and Mr. Buck took one staggering step and collapsed on the ground, never to get up.

I swear on my Dad's grave, this is a true story.
No highjack intended, just a story on the good ole 30-30...
PS: I did practice alot prior to the season opener....
 
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HUNTING With The .30-30 Today
Guns Magazine, August, 2001 by Holt Bodinson

Advances in bullet design and loading technique have kept this grand old cartridge on the forefront of ballistic performance.

After kicking around for 106 years, the Winchester .30-30 should be clawing for life in the face of ballistic advances throughout the ensuing decades. Yet, this historic big-game cartridge continues to breeze along, placing among the top five best-selling centerfire rifle cartridges year after year after year. Perhaps this venerable old cartridge deserves a second -- or even third -- look.

Introduced in 1895 in the Model 94 Winchester rifle, the .30 Winchester Center Fire was America's first smokeless-powder sporting cartridge. Loaded with a 160 gr. bullet at 1,970 fps and chambered in a rifle that had the slim lines of a Model 92 Winchester, the .30 WCF virtually buried the big-bore, blackpowder cartridges and the ponderous rifles chambered for them.

Chambered in Winchesters, Marlins, Savages, and dozens of other domestic and foreign brands -- literally millions of firearms -- the .30-30 emerged as the supreme "deer" chambering. In this, the era of super magnums, the little .30-30 still has a lot to offer savvy shooters.
Advertisement

First and foremost, it is a balanced cartridge. It has been around so long that the soft point bullets loaded by the factories are highly refined. They expand well and hold together perfectly at .30-30 velocities. If you've ever wanted to see a picture-perfect mushroomed soft point, just recover a .30-30 bullet from any big game animal. Moreover, the excellent factory ammunition is cheap.

It's an accurate cartridge. Maybe lever action designs don't deliver the best a cartridge has to offer, but we've owned many .30-30 rifles and carbines that would easily do 2" at 100 yards with factory ammunition -- some even better. When chambered in bolt actions like the Winchester 54, Savage 340 and Remington 788 or in single shots like the Browning 1885, Savage 219 and 24 or the current T/C Contenders, the handloaded .30-30 can deliver sub-MOA groups.

The .30-30 is an effective 200-yard, light big-game cartridge when used in a scope-sighted rifle. It's an often-repeated fact, but more big game is shot under 200 yards than over. We've known the .30-30 to perform well on deer, black bear, antelope, elk and moose, and you can't ask for much more than that from any cartridge.

What More Could Anyone Ask?

The .30-30 is very mild in the recoil department when chambered in light and handy firearms. In fact, the modest recoil dished out by the .30-30 is one of its most endearing qualities. We would place the .30-30 at the head of the list as an ideal big-game caliber for many women and youths or other shooters who are recoil sensitive and who find a 61/2 lb. rifle just about all they want to carry afield.

It's a handloader's dream. Headspace is fixed by the case's rim, so the .30-30 doesn't require any critical resizing die adjustments. The long, forgiving neck just seems to align any bullet -- cast or jacketed -- a bit better than modern stubby-neck designs.

Its modest case capacity of around 30 grs. of powder provides high loading densities when loaded to the max, and yet not excessive air space when stoked with mild, reduced loads. Often overlooked is the fact that inexpensive 170 gr. gas-checked cast bullets can be driven as fast in the .30-30 as jacketed bullets of the same weight--both around 2,150 fps.

If you don't handload, the factories offer every conceivable loading from Remington's 55 gr., .224 sabot Accelerator revving up at 3,400 fps to Federal's 170 gr. Nosler Partition at 2,200 fps. The most popular loadings are the 150 gr. offerings. Every manufacturer offers one or two, and the hotshot of the group is Winchester's new 150 gr. Power-Point Plus at 2,480 fps.

No, this is not your grandpappy's .30-30 pushing a 160 gr. soft point at 1,970 fps. When zeroed at 100 yards, the new Winchester load is down only 3.5" at 200 yards. Then there's PMC's wicked-looking 150 gr. monolithic Starfire with a hollowpoint cavity so large it actually encircles the primer ahead of it in a tubular magazine.

The Unconventional .30-30

While factory loads are tailored for safe loading in tubular magazines and feature round or flat nose soft points or cavernous hollowpoints, spitzer bullets can be loaded in lever guns as long as utmost care and safety precautions are observed to assure that such ammo is not mixed with traditional loads, or improperly loaded. Simply load one in the chamber and one in the magazine, making the rifle a two-shot. The Remington factory 55 gr. .224 spitzer Accelerator is the only exception. Because the load does not develop any meaningful recoil, it is considered entirely safe for tubular magazine use.

We've experimented with a lot of two-shot spitzer loads for lever guns. Frankly, they're difficult to assemble properly because the maximum overall length of the .30-30 cartridge, set at 2.55", is critical if the second cartridge is to cycle from the magazine through the action.
The other problem is that spitzer bullets either do not feature a cannelure or carry a cannelure at the wrong point for a proper crimp in the .30-30 case. When all is said and done, it's a waste of time. A 200-yard rifle doesn't need a spitzer bullet - the actual improvement in downrange ballistics is inconsequential.

The Perfect .30-30

When it comes to .30-30 firearms, we love the utility of the little 20" barreled carbines, but favor the 24" barreled Marlin or Winchester rifles for accuracy and velocity. Last whitetail season, we carried Winchester's "Legacy" model in .30-30 equipped with a 24" barrel, full-length magazine, and two carbine-style barrel bands. The "Legacy" design is an angle eject so it was mounted with a Kahles 4x36 scope.

The rig is nicely balanced, a delight to carry and performed like a good .30-30 should. One shot at 125 yards, using Winchester's hot, new, 150 gr. Power-Point Plus, was all it took to put some top-grade venison in the freezer.

In short, the .30-30 is a wonderfully flexible and effective 200-yard big game cartridge. Its modest recoil makes it easy to shoot in light, handy firearms. Even though it's 106 years old, it's still a modern classic and holding its own into the new millennium. Don't overlook it -- it's not your grandpappy's .30-30.

Factory ammo for the .30-30 is available in a variety of loads ranging from 55 gr. .224 sabots to 170 gr. big game bullets.

The .30-30 gained its reputation as a deer-hunting cartridge, and it's just as effective today as it was 106 years ago.

Inset. Whoa! Loading spitzer bullets in a .30-30? Actually, as long as you make sure you only have one round in the magazine, you can take advantage of these ballistically superior projectiles.

SUPER ACCURATE .30.30 HANDLOADS
Cooking up handloads for the .30-30
is easy, economical and interesting.
Here are a few of Holt's
favorite, accurate handloads
assembled in Winchester brass with
Winchester large rifle primers:
BULLET POWDER VELOCITY
Hornady 93 gr. RNSP 35.0 grs. RL-7 3,095 fps
Sierra 125 gr. HPFN 30.0 grs. RL-7 2,550 fps
Speer 130 gr. FNSP 35.0 grs. AA 2520 2,530 fps
Sierra 150 gr. FNSP 28.0 grs. RL-7 2,350 fps
Sierra 170 gr. FNSP 34.0 grs. RL-15 2,352 fps
Laser-Cast 173 gr. FNGC 19.0 grs. IMR 4227 1,872 fps
All handloads assembled using
Winchester brass and large rifle
primers. The 93 gr. Hornady Luger
bullet is available only from the
Old Western Scrounger. The 173 gr.
gas-checked lead bullet is avail-
able directly from Laser-Cast.
BALLISTIC DATA
.30.30 FACTORY LOADS
LOAD VELOCITY
Remington 55 gr. Accelerator 3,495 fps
Winchester 150 gr. Power-Point 2,405 fps
PMC 150 gr. Starfire 2,308 fps
Federal 170 gr. Nosler Partition 2,175 fps
 
30-30 for Elk ?

... "John Y Canuck" .... An excellent article you posted ! The 30-30 is the quintessential "deer cartridge" and certainly going back to when I first came to Canada, and seriously hunted, I never felt under-gunned with a 94 Winchester. It's still a fun gun to take up to the Range, and I've never deviated from the 170grain bullets. Admittedly, it's not a MOA in the carbine version, but with a Williams sight, it's plenty accurate, and quick onto the target for snap shots. And as noted, it's an easy cartridge to re-load, not that many seem to bother with re-loading it, which is a shame ! .... David K.:)
 
Is Hornady offering their Leverevolution bullets for handloading in 30-30? I've bought a couple boxes of the factory loads and have been impressed.
 
Awesome article John Y, thanks a million for taking the time. :rockOn:
Buzz: no they don't just yet. I was wondering though, how those tips would remain soft in -25 below weather. Couldn't get an answer from them (by email) so I put some in the freezer, the wife is used to that kind of stuff now. They stay pretty soft even frozen. I'm pretty impressed with them too. 2" high at 100, 2" low at 200 - that's with iron sights mind you, how I plan to shoot this gun.
 
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I would not hesitate to tip over an elk inside 100y/m with a 30-30. Even better if you've loaded your own ammo with a real good bullet, but at 30-30 velocities, I'd gladly put a generic cup and core soft point in the ribs any day.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
I actually asked Hornady about the chances of getting some for reloading. The answer?
Nope, never..... maybe..
Or something to that effect. Pretty close to the wording too.


See, this is how they hook us into buying their stash....damn bullet addictions.
 
win70 said:
Yeah the .30 30 may work on close elk but...

The real question is why use it?

Hell a spear may work too..

Why not?
If it works, and it is the rifle you have then why not use it?

Besides its cheap ammo to buy and reload for compared to most out there. :D
 
Calum said:
Why not?
If it works, and it is the rifle you have then why not use it?

Besides its cheap ammo to buy and reload for compared to most out there. :D

If I was that cheap then I would settle for a .303 Lee enfield..

..now that's a rifle...;)
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Will 'it' do the job under the conditions you've stated, yes. Are there possibly better choices, again, yes.
On a Deer, that's one thing. Elk 'can' be a little harder to knock over. I gotta' stick with my previous statement.
 
A .30-30 loaded with a 170gr will take any elk/moose/deer that presents a clean broadside shot within 100yards. If you want to load it specifically for heavy game, cruise the gunshows and snag all the old .303 Savage factory ammo loaded with 190gr RN bullets you can find. Pull the bullets and load 'em in the .30-30 Win. for a close range thumper load ;) After reading this thread the other day, I picked up another couple more boxes of 170gr .30-30 ammo just because my little M94 is so handy. And it's a hoot to carry an open sighted lever gun for the challenge of stalking spring blackbears :)
 
Hunted with a single shot 30/30 for years, no sweat for moose.
can't see the difference in an elk if the bullet was properly placed, but I stalked pretty close when I was younger...
Cat
 
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