Is .410 enough to take down a large animal

Hey!... Another bear defence thread. :popCorn:

If a .410 is all I had, you can bet your ass id try to kiil it with it. Even if I have to let the the attacking animal get with in biting distance.

Would I take a .410 as a wildlife defence firearm? Nope.

By the way guys, bears are not something you should worry about when out in the woods. Have you ever been stalked by a Mountain Lion? Now that is very scary when you discover a Mountain Lion trying to sneak up on you because you know what it wants when its doing that. Then theirs wolves, Id rather have to face a single bear then a pack of wolves.
 
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I never realized that the 410 slug was so light - the heaviest is only about 115 grs. The highest MV I've seen is about 1800 fps, but with a BC of no more than about 0.070 (!), it would bleed off velocity and energy very fast. I have to wonder it's purpose - a marginal 35 yd deer round?
 
Andy said:
I never realized that the 410 slug was so light - the heaviest is only about 115 grs. The highest MV I've seen is about 1800 fps, but with a BC of no more than about 0.070 (!), it would bleed off velocity and energy very fast. I have to wonder it's purpose - a marginal 35 yd deer round?
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It really has no purpose. A totally useless exercise. The .410 is the only shotgun chambering that is described by bore diameter. To get a rough idea of it's effectiveness, if it were a shotgun gauge it would be a 67 gauge, that means it would take 67 lead balls the diameter of the bore to weigh one pound. Sounds pretty anemic, that's because it is.
 
fiddler said:
So does this mean that if you shove your barrel up a bears a$$ , you might be able to protect yourself?




This is very false and misleading information. A 30.30 shoots a 170 grain bullet at 2300 feet per second, where a .410 shoots a 80 grain bullet at 1200 feet per second. Comparing a muzzle energy of one gun to the energy of another at 300 yards away is a pretty poor explanations to give a new guy.
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I understand, and mentioned to the poster, that I understood he was inexperienced. Still, he might understand the 300-yard .30-30 analogy.
I would not call that misleading. And t5he FACT is, at 300 yards, a 170-grain .30-30 load has about 735 ft-lbs of energy, almost exactly what a .410 slug has at the muzzle. Data taken from Federal website. It is not FALSE.

I am rather offended by the "very false information" comment, and I would appreciate your explaining in what way it is false. If you have facts I overlooked, list them.
Otherwise, make sure you are correct before you post. I think you are way off on this one.
 
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The performance of a jacketed 170gr .30 bullet is going to be a bit different than a 1/5th ounce hollow based soft lead .410 slug.

I knew a chap who killed a moose with a slug from a .410 single shot shotgun. The moose was floundering in heavy snow, he was on snowshoes. He got very close and executed it.
 
I believe that under ideal conditions, you could kill a bear with a .410 slug.
However, as a "protection" round, it would be way, way down on my list, indeed.
In experiments on various media, I have found the .410 slug lacking penetration, big time.
12 ga. - certainly, 20 ga. - possibly, .410 - not a chance of me carrying one for protection.
Eagleye.
 
please read this:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm#13309644174601&ifh=44

and determine for yourself.
granted he is using a revolver so velocities will be much higher out of the longer barrel.

The slugs he was using saw 3 and 4 jug penetration which relates to roughly 12 inches of penetration

here is the article summed up:
Lessons learned:
1. The 3 inch .410 shells did slightly better than the 2 ½ inch shells did. But most of them still failed to make the 12 inch minimum penetration standard. However, a few loads made the minimum penetration standard.

2. Some of the pellets deviated sharply from their path and left the water jugs.

3. The longer barrel of the 28 inch shotgun made quite a difference in penetration. It seems that the short 3 inch barrel of the Judge is its main limitation.

4. Even at 7 yards, the pattern of the Judge is too wide, and will cause some of the load to miss a bad guy. Not only are you responsible for every pellet you send down range, but if they miss him, they do not Stop him.

5. The sun was shining, it was a blue bird day, and it was better than any day I ever spent at work.

6. It’s fun to shoot stuff.

Many thanks to ArmedSuspect and Ashby Arms in Harrisonburg, VA, for supplying the Judge and ammo for this test. And thanks to Vern and Bill for the help hauling all that water.
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ptg01114688.jpg

If this is the image you would be seeing a 115gr appetizer might get him before you were the main course.
 
Not to nit pick but... I'm still confused why 300 yards was brought up as...

A) A smooth bore shotgun will not out perform a rifle for accuracy.
Energy comparisons are moot if the projectile can't hit the target.

B) Bear defence range is often considered by many experts to be from 50 yards huffing and charging at you to poop in pants wow this bear needs to consider mouthwash. :p
 
defense

The one factor that I have yet to see voiced in any of these defense scenarios, is what happens once an animal has made up his mind and choses to fight over flight. His adrenal gland now kicks into high gear to increase his strength, speed and reduces any sensation of pain or even broken bones.
Grizzlies in this mode have been known, and reported by credible sources to soak up 375 bullets like they were 22s. Once in fight mode and fully charged with adrenaline only brain, spine or massive bone break up will stop these animals. There is a huge difference from an animal hunted and shot while unaware, than one that has chosen fight over flight. This applies to all mammals and makes a moose or elk or even deer deadly if cornered and feel flight is not an option and then switch to fight mode. Black bears tend to choose flight whenever possible but I have noticed lately that the big boars are becoming less fearful and tolerant and therefore more dangerous. Both here in the Yukon and also on my property in BC. This makes them more likely to chose fight over flight and hence extremely dangerous.
Bear spray does work because it assaults their sense of smell and sight with a massive unexpected instantaneous attack and causes them to change to flight believing they have been mortaly wounded, with no sight or smell they become unwilling to continue the fight.

.410.....................you decide
 
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Calum said:
Not to nit pick but... I'm still confused why 300 yards was brought up as...

A) A smooth bore shotgun will not out perform a rifle for accuracy.
Energy comparisons are moot if the projectile can't hit the target.

B) Bear defence range is often considered by many experts to be from 50 yards huffing and charging at you to poop in pants wow this bear needs to consider mouthwash. :p
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Sigh. I will explain. You're not really nitpicking. Much.

Lots of shooters consider the .30-30 as an underpowered bear defence choice. And the idea of even trying to use one to KILL a bear at 300 yards is a HUGE stretch. So I was comparing the ENERGY of a .410 shotgun at THE MUZZLE (so accuracy won't be a factor) vs the ENERGY of a .30-30 at 300 yards.

If you can re-read the post, you will see that I never suggested shooting a bear with either firearm at 300 yards...nor did I even hint at the foolish idea that one would DEFEND oneself from a bear 300 yards away. All I did was an energy comparison. I did realize that unless the shooter had some idea of how powerful (or notpowerful) a .30-30 Winchester is, he/she might find this comparison a bit hard to grasp. I thought seasoned shooters would get it, though.
 
Remember Star Wars.... How Luke blew up the death star... how huge the death star was and that tiny little core he had to hit in order for it to explode and save the day?...

That's a good comparison as to what a .410 would be like in a bear defense scenario.... except the death star stayed still and the bear would be roaring and brandishing it's teeth and barreling down at you at about 30 Miles an hour..... :)
 
Superbrad said:
Remember Star Wars.... How Luke blew up the death star... how huge the death star was and that tiny little core he had to hit in order for it to explode and save the day?...

That's a good comparison as to what a .410 would be like in a bear defense scenario.... except the death star stayed still and the bear would be roaring and brandishing it's teeth and barreling down at you at about 30 Miles an hour..... :)
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Yep, eye socket or nasal passage to the brain, only hope, MAYBE!!!!! I'm thinking next "Darwin award" recipient, actually.
 
A class mate of mine (a geologist) went on a canoe trip on Great Slave Lake with his bride and all he took was his .22LR/.410 Savage 24 and they were just fine

Then again I told him he was an idiot for leaving his .303 Brit behind.
 
.410 will kill a bear if you use the right technique. The correct technique is to shove the barrel about 18" up the bear's ass and then pull the trigger. Once you have it all the way up the bear's ass, it is 100% effective but it can be challenging getting it there. But it should not prove to challenging for someone who wants to hunt bear with a .410.
 
I would rather used a sharpened stick as, at least, it won't irritate a big bear and works (at least in one movie) ;)
I would never offend or insult the bear on the right of the picture...

The_Edgemovie_wallpaper_pictures_photo_pics_poster260310092953the_edge_movie_2.jpg


Alex
 
Here's the thing about having to kill a bear in self defense. If you got to kill him, you got to kill him RIGHT FCUKING NOW, and a 410 can't do that, every time, not even 10% of the time.
 
geologist said:
A class mate of mine (a geologist) went on a canoe trip on Great Slave Lake with his bride and all he took was his .22LR/.410 Savage 24 and they were just fine

Then again I told him he was an idiot for leaving his .303 Brit behind.
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How many bears did he fend off with his combo gun?.....

I have a Swiss army knife in my pocket at all times..... I went for a walk in the woods last week... I am just fine... therefore swiss army knives are adequate for bear defense also... your savage gun is overkill.....
 
geologist said:
A class mate of mine (a geologist) went on a canoe trip on Great Slave Lake with his bride and all he took was his .22LR/.410 Savage 24 and they were just fine

Then again I told him he was an idiot for leaving his .303 Brit behind.
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Those crazy geologists:rolleyes: :D
 
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